Posted on 03/21/2022 8:37:27 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
Anyone who has read the Bible cover-to-cover will learn that there is much in it that requires some deep digging to understand.
As Michael Heiser says (I paraphrase), context is everything...and context keeps getting more clearly defined as our understanding of ancient Jewish culture grows.
There is no doubt that the Bible is a miracle itself and supernatural, but there has been much misinterpretation and misunderstanding of it.
Very thoughtful. It is what distinguishes Christianity, from say Mad Mo Religion, which has belief that the Koran exists in arabic in a pre existent, archetype form. Christianity believes that Jesus himself was ‘the Word’, not a book being the word. Paul makes it clear the bible was the result of God inspiring the creation of the text. But the text was not pre existent. So what does that mean for a Christian. Simply that the written word speaks about the Word but is not the Word. It is to be revered, but it is not the subject or relic to worshipped in and of itself.
This could be said of a few other preachers, including Raul Ries and Chuck Smith. Their sons are caricatures, not preachers. I have to believe it is all part of the falling away from the faith that the Bible speaks about in prophecy that we have been seeing for some time now.
Correct. The Koran in Islam takes the place of Jesus in Christianity
Sunni, Shia and Ibadi (but not Ismaili I think) believe that the Koran was not created but pre-existed before creation, so it takes the place of Jesus in their religion.
The correspondence for the Bible is the Hadith and Sirah
Simply that the written word speaks about the Word but is not the Word. It is to be revered, but it is not the subject or relic to worshipped in and of itself. -- yes!!
Hezekiah 4:2 clearly warns us about believing whatever anyone says, just because they claim it’s in The Bible. LOL
“Please tell me how any of us can know anything authoritative about Jesus outside of the Bible?”
THAT is the right question.
“By experience!”
And THAT is THE WRONG answer; “experience” could be something you had for lunch talking back to you.
No! The CORRECT answer is, “By The Holy Spirit.” For, although we DO experience Him, He is not “AN Experience”; He is the VERY Person of The Living God sent among us at Pentecost, and — God HELP US — how we have, in our fleshly fear, shunned, compartmentalized, muted, and diminished Him!
But God has not give us a Spirit that makes us timid cowards, but One of POWER, and of LOVE, and of erudite judgment!
ABSOLUTELY, The Scriptures are “The Chariot The Spirit Most Prefers to be carried in,” and the Holy Spirit WILL NOT EVER say ANYTHING that contradicts what is written (although it may clash with how some have interpreted what is written, but that’s different), but he is not confined to what is written. He is The Second Person of the Eternal, Immortal, Immutable, Infinite God, and He is not bounded by ANY THING; He establishes bounds for everything, but He, Himself remains boundless. What is written establishes The Foundation, and the Framework, and all that The Holy Spirit says will comport with, and affirm it, but He will also elaborate, furbish, embellish, and — yea — even complete it in due course.
HEAR HIM!
Good stuff Cronos
If a man fails to clean his cat's litterbox daily, take him outside the gates of the city and stone him.Anyone who understands context knows the real interpretation of this verse is "anyone who fails to clean the litterbox daily is probably stoned (i.e., smoking dope)."
Magnificent!
Truth cannot contradict itself, so agreement with the other books of Scripture was only logical, as was historical accuracy - if the facts of a book were not accurate, it couldn’t have been from God.
In Seminary, my favorite class was studying Hezekiah. Good stuff. 😉
But what is truth? - (hmmm... heard that before...) Is it your interpretation of a verse or is it mine? It is your sect's interpretation or my sect's interpretation? Not as clean and checklist checkoff simple as some would make it out to be.
We are in the year 2022. There is still debate as to the origins of which early church manuscripts, were the most accurate. Example:
https://www.ancient-hebrew.org/studies-nt/greek-and-aramaic-manuscripts-of-the-new-testament.htm
Comparing the Greek and Aramaic New Testaments
Matthew 19:24 (a camel or rope?)
Greek Translation (KJV): "And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."
Aramaic text: "And again I say to you, that it is easier for a rope to enter into the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."
How clueless can someone be? He clearly never thought through his position. I can’t even call it reasoning because there is no reason in it.
Perhaps he could instruct us on how we know about Jesus without those “66 ancient documents”.
Ping
39 books. The non-canonical books of the apocrypha don’t count. Why is it Jesus never quoted from any books of the apocrypha?
The only thing that makes the Bible infallible is the death and resurrection of the person of Jesus. It is confessing Jesus as Lord and believing in our hearts that God has raised him from the dead that introduces us to everlasting life. The information for such a salvation is found in the scriptures.
Paul said:”If there be no resurrection of the dead, then let us eat and drink for tomorrow we die!” The resurrection is the ultimate center of the Bible’s power. If there never was a resurrection, the the Bible is just another fallible work of man. The Bible is infallible because we believe Christ rose from the dead.
It is kind of an irony that the scripture “All scripture is God breathed and profitable for reproof and doctrine...” is found in 2 Timothy 3:16...since it dovetails so neatly with John 3:16. To me...those are the two most important “chapter 3 verse 16’s” in the entire bible and they go together like bacon and eggs. The only thing the Bereans had for scripture was the old Testament and perhaps a few letters and early books of the Disciples. It takes the old Testament to give depth to the new testament but the new testament explains what the Old testament was leading to...the death and resurrection of Jesus and of his sacrifice that cleanses us of sin and all of our unrighteousness.
Now the best answer to give to those who detract from the Bible citing...this “source” or that “wrongly translated verse” is simply to cite 2 Timothy 3:16 and keep repeating it until they agree or scoff at you and stalk off.
The earliest church creeds...the apostles creed for example provide a good templates thru which, with the help of the Spirit, the Bible can begin to be read and understood. The Old Testament is threaded thru with the person of Jesus Christ, once you know how to look for him (and the creeds can provide a simple exposition of the faith)*...after all Jesus is that “WORD MADE FLESH!”. That is why he said...”Ye search the scriptures for eternal life. These are they that testify of me.”
*I think the early church creeds were sort of the first gospel style religious tracts...easily written down, memorized and passed around. Think what you will of tracts..even the “Chick” ones...they have their place! The creeds were not “the Bible” but the Bible supports what they say, especially about the person of Jesus Christ.
My nephew attended Andy Stanley’s church for years. I went with them once when I was visiting Atlanta and it was shameful. I walked out.
They haven’t returned since Covid, and I think they might be better off spiritually to go nowhere than to attend that “church”. (It’s a combo of social club and cult.)
“The Word was with God and the Word was God”
Hezekiah 4:3-7.
Matt. 6:19-20 – Jesus’ statement about laying up for yourselves treasure in heaven follows Sirach 29:11 – lay up your treasure.
Matt.. 7:12 – Jesus’ golden rule “do unto others” is the converse of Tobit 4:15 – what you hate, do not do to others.
Matt. 7:16,20 – Jesus’ statement “you will know them by their fruits” follows Sirach 27:6 – the fruit discloses the cultivation.
Matt. 9:36 – the people were “like sheep without a shepherd” is same as Judith 11:19 – sheep without a shepherd.
Matt. 11:25 – Jesus’ description “Lord of heaven and earth” is the same as Tobit 7:18 – Lord of heaven and earth.
Matt. 12:42 – Jesus refers to the wisdom of Solomon which was recorded and made part of the deuterocanonical books.
Matt. 16:18 – Jesus’ reference to the “power of death” and “gates of Hades” references Wisdom 16:13.
Matt. 22:25; Mark 12:20; Luke 20:29 – Gospel writers refer to the canonicity of Tobit 3:8 and 7:11 regarding the seven brothers.
Matt. 24:15 – the “desolating sacrilege” Jesus refers to is also taken from 1 Macc. 1:54 and 2 Macc. 8:17.
Matt. 24:16 – let those “flee to the mountains” is taken from 1 Macc. 2:28.
Matt. 27:43 – if He is God’s Son, let God deliver him from His adversaries follows Wisdom 2:18.
Mark 4:5,16-17 – Jesus’ description of seeds falling on rocky ground and having no root follows Sirach 40:15.
Mark 9:48 – description of hell where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched references Judith 16:17.
Luke 1:42 – Elizabeth’s declaration of Mary’s blessedness above all women follows Uzziah’s declaration in Judith 13:18.
Luke 1:52 – Mary’s magnificat addressing the mighty falling from their thrones and replaced by lowly follows Sirach 10:14.
Luke 2:29 – Simeon’s declaration that he is ready to die after seeing the Child Jesus follows Tobit 11:9.
Luke 13:29 – the Lord’s description of men coming from east and west to rejoice in God follows Baruch 4:37.
Luke 21:24 – Jesus’ usage of “fall by the edge of the sword” follows Sirach 28:18.
Luke 24:4 and Acts 1:10 – Luke’s description of the two men in dazzling apparel reminds us of 2 Macc. 3:26.
John 1:3 – all things were made through Him, the Word, follows Wisdom 9:1.
John 3:13 – who has ascended into heaven but He who descended from heaven references Baruch 3:29.
John 4:48; Acts 5:12; 15:12; 2 Cor. 12:12 – Jesus’, Luke’s and Paul’s usage of “signs and wonders” follows Wisdom 8:8.
John 5:18 – Jesus claiming that God is His Father follows Wisdom 2:16.
John 6:35-59 – Jesus’ Eucharistic discourse is foreshadowed in Sirach 24:21.
John 10:22 – the identification of the feast of the dedication is taken from 1 Macc. 4:59.
John 10:36 – Jesus accepts the inspiration of Maccabees as He analogizes the Hanukkah consecration to His own consecration to the Father in 1 Macc. 4:36.
John 15:6 – branches that don’t bear fruit and are cut down follows Wis. 4:5 where branches are broken off.
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