Whatever that was, it wasn’t a ‘stunt’ (Jiffy Pachamama Removal Service)

In the Light of the Law ^ | Oct 22, 2019 | Edward Peters

[elteemike]

Agreed...They faithfully obeyed the First Commandment: “I am the Lord thy God; thou shalt not have strange gods before Me.” — Baltimore Catechism

They saw it as their duty to do what their priest apparently would not...

[DesertRhino]

I have an idea that in the olden days, the people of the village expressed disapproval in ways that provoked laughter.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

You are mistaken. This was not an anti-Catholic removal of normal statues found in a church. It was a removal of pagan fertility goddess icons that were recently added.

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They are all our wonderful statues, used in only veneration, passed down from our head Peter.

As such, they are part of sacred tradition for us Catholics.

I think we even have a fertility goddess saint we can pray directly to.

[Mrs. Don-o]

I like the way you think, DesertRhino!

[Mrs. Don-o]

Exactly. But you’re using the faculty of reason. An unfair tactic! This is the FR Religion Forum!

[Joe 6-pack]

This is the Pac Mama I remember from my youth...

[ealgeone]

It matters what the statue represents, which is why the Ark of the Covenant was to be surmounted by golden cherubim, not golden Canaanite fertility demons.

And no one prayed to the Ark of the Covenant either unlike Roman Catholics and their idols they claim to be Mary.

[ealgeone]

You are mistaken. This was not an anti-Catholic removal of normal statues found in a church. It was a removal of pagan fertility goddess icons that were recently added.

IF one bows before, pray to the image, relies upon the image, etc...it's an idol.

Rome has approved a lot things that are non-scriptural.

[Mrs. Don-o]

About 35+ years ago, I heard a priest explain why going into an abortuary and disabling a suction abortion machine is not morally wrong, nor a crime against property.

He said that "property" literally means what is "proper" to a person, what he possesses particularly and has the legitimate use of. Inasmuch as there is no legitimate use for a suction abortion machine, it is not --- in the sense used in moral theology ---"property" at all.

He said that like a strategic nuclear weapon, an abortion machine has no legitimate use and has no right to exist --- the possible exception being, as a display in a museum of crimes against God and humanity.

The application to, say, pornography (an example used by Campion) is pretty direct. If someone put a pornographic magazine on a Catholic altar, we would expect any Catholic to remove it and destroy it, not inquire into who was the owner and would he please come fetch it and display it elsewhere.

The application to the Pachamama idol is perhaps not quite so exact, but

(1) It functions in a Church setting as a sacrilege, a violation of the First and most important commandment, and

(2) Pachamama is apparently now --- in 21st century --- the patroness of the Andean/Amazon cocaine industry, just as "Santa Muerte" is patroness of the Mexican drug cartels.

Doodlebob, if you found a Santa Muerte diabolical icon befouling a Catholic sanctuary, would you think obligatory to leave it in the sanctuary while the proper owner was located?

[Mrs. Don-o]

Much, much cuter than Pachamama!

[Mrs. Don-o]

I think a better way -— at least, a more exactly Biblical way-— might have been burning them while chanting the Dies Irae -— then sweeping out the ashes and reconsecrating the church

[DesertRhino]

I understand where you are coming from, but this isn’t a thread for Catholic vs Protestant scriptural arguments. At least for me, this is celebrating fellow Christians fighting the rot. I don’t have to agree with those guys 100% doctrinally to stand beside them as they throw idols into the river.
I want to see more of this in all Christian denominations.

[Missouri gal]

Removing the idols did not entirely solve the problems created. There is the likelihood of desecration of the church and self excommunication (latae sententiae) of the involved clerics. Further, we have real concerns that Francis has apostatized and therefore may have lost the power of his office, along with his co-participating clerics. There are a host of penalties for bad clerics listed in the code of canon law, but they require the judgment and imposition by a clerical superior.

[DesertRhino]

“I am a strong believer in the sanctity of private property. Thus as much as I empathize with and may be inclined to cheer on this act, theft is theft”

Then I guess Jesus should have been arrested for destroying private property when he cleared the temple. After all HE didn’t own those tables and that money.

You should worry more about the sanctity of the church than the so called “sanctity” of private property. Where do you draw the line? What if the church bought and paid for Maplethorpe photos to put in the sanctuary. Would you shrug and say “private property, leave it alone”?

[metmom]

Exodus 20:4-6 Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth. Thou shalt not adore them, nor serve them: I am the Lord thy God, mighty, jealous, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me: And shewing mercy unto thousands to them that love me, and keep my commandments.

[ealgeone]

I understand where you are coming from, but this isn’t a thread for Catholic vs Protestant scriptural arguments. At least for me, this is celebrating fellow Christians fighting the rot. I don’t have to agree with those guys 100% doctrinally to stand beside them as they throw idols into the river. I want to see more of this in all Christian denominations.

That's why I'm writing against the idolatry in Roman Catholicism.

There is a difference.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

That's why I'm writing against the idolatry in Roman Catholicism.

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PLEASE, these are not idols. They are art to help us worship! They are part of tradition and sanctified by being incorporated into the church!

[ealgeone]

...at least, a more exactly Biblical way...

I agree with your appeal to Scripture as THE authority.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

And no one prayed to the Ark of the Covenant either unlike Roman Catholics and their idols they claim to be Mary.

.............

Speaking of prayer and Mary...

[DoodleBob]

Doodlebob, if you found a Santa Muerte diabolical icon befouling a Catholic sanctuary, would you think obligatory to leave it in the sanctuary while the proper owner was located?

I may be inclined to take that icon to the Parish Priest, who is the just "keeper" of the Church, for him to deal with it (hopefully) properly by destroying it. If that Priest gives that icon a cheery two-thumbs up, then I may be inclined to unleash a massive social media AND print media blitz that exposes this Priest's actions.

Believe me, I get that these are difficult times and the current leaders are not in synch with what is proper, moral teaching. I am all for calling out these guys and blasting them in the public square 24/7 until their teeth chatter. But as soon as I (or any other wrench) take it upon myself to be the judge, jury, and executioner of what constitutes "appropriate property" in any Church, then surely Aquinas has lost and the rabble have won.