Posted on 09/05/2019 8:31:18 AM PDT by pastorbillrandles
If one loses their faith; they no longer believe.
Jesus was clear (to me) in John 3:18
Mark 16:16 NIV
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Well if there was , it was a rather rapid process, up until the last step, the thief on the cross is still waiting for the salvation of his body 1 Corinthians 15:50-55
Well if there was , it was a rather rapid process, up until the last step, the thief on the cross is still waiting for the salvation of his body 1 Corinthians 15:50-55
50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”[a]
55 “Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?”[b]
8
he will swallow up death forever.
14
“I will deliver this people from the power of the grave;
The only way I can accept this, is if 'continuing to have faith' is to be considered a 'process'.
What we argue over is:
1. What it means
2. How it is accomplished.
Way too many Christian organizations preach:
1. Saved by Grace
2. Kept by 'something'
with the bottom line being, "Yeah; the Lord saved you - but what are YOU now going to do to KEEP it?
John 6:25-40
25 When they found him on the other side of the lake, they asked him, “Rabbi, when did you get here?”
26 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. 27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”
28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
30 So they asked him, “What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do? 31 Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’[c]”
32 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
34 “Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.”
35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
A simple, to the point question received a simple, direct answer.
I will not make any assumptions about what GOD may or may not do.
John 6:28-29
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,[f] 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”[g]
7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You[c] must be born again.’
Creating a new human being is a 'process'; starting with the mother and the father coming together.
After 9 months of 'process' (more or less) a child is born: POW! there it is!
So it is with us; the second time. The 'process' being the events that lead up to our final BELIEF!! Pow! there IT is: a child of GOD.
Just as a new-born human baby now needs to grow and learn and thrive; thus it is the same with a new-born Christian.
There is a 'process' to all of this, but the main event, the birth, is NOT. We are never gonna be 'more' born than that day written on our birth certificate.
Likewise with 'salvation'. You are either alive in GOD or you are not.
I cannot envision a human being stuck in the birth canal of a woman any more than I can a Christian being stuck in some 'process' of salvation.
1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?
5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.
12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
BINGO! Faith is something you ‘continue’ in it is not a one time momentary experience... I Corinthians 15... if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
Collosians 1 “If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, “
If you continue in what you have heard...”
Flesh AND blood certainly do not inherit God’s Kingdom. However, Jesus made certain that the Apostles knew that he was a physical being, not a spirit. He ate with them, He had each one handle Him, touch His wounds and know that while not mortal He was a physical being. When He departed for Heaven for the last time, leaving the believers, some 500 or so that watched His departure, the two angels standing near Him told the crowd that He would return just as He left.
Christ told us that we would be Just like Him. We would be raised up to incorruptible bodies. On the morning of Christ’s Resurrection many of the saints that “slept” had their graves opened and they walked among the believers, they weren’t ghosts, they were physical beings.
For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
__________________________________________________________
I do not contest these words at all but detest what people make of them. It is more than some think because to believe in Jesus Christ the Son of man and The Son of God there are things which will prove that we believe. The fact is that Satan believes in Jesus Christ and hates Him. Satan will not be going to Heaven. So, saying believing in Jesus is grossly misleading. I think the Apostle James in his epistle clears it up nicely. “Show me your works and I’ll show you your faith”. Also he said “Faith without works is dead”. Now please don’t go accusing me of saying works save, they do not. Only the sacred name of Jesus Christ saves and only by His grace is that a possibility. We cannot command God or Jesus to save anybody. There will be a judgement. Your “works” will be judged to have been faithful or not.
All the above is not to say we can’t know if we are or not saved, we know in our heart. I do believe however that there are many who consider themselves to be born again who are not. Saying the words Jesus Christ, or “saying” you believe in Jesus Christ is not a secret admittance to Heaven. What you do in life after professing belief in Jesus Christ will be the proof of your belief.
The fact salvation is a process means it is not an unconditional one and done deal for all time regardless of how the Christian lives his life. Since salvation is a process is why the Christian is told to be faithful unto death (Rev 2:10). The Christian is to run the Christian race and cannot stop until the race is finished, not fall short, (Hebrews 4:1). Phil 2:12 “work out your salvation” is a ongoing sustained work not a one time, unconditional deal.
The justification of Abraham was a process beginning in Genesis 12 with his obeying God in leaving house, land and kindred to Genesis 22:12 in offering Isaac.
I have a problem with the vast majority of humanity who have never heard God’s word being condemned for eternity. Surely a God of love would not do that. Are they then doomed, through no fault of their own to eternal damnation? I
First, doctrine is never to be simply based upon what you think a "God of love" would do or not do.
Second, no one is damned for what they are not culpable and guilty of, but are condemned for choosing to sin, contrary to the light they had, and in in accordance with the grace given them, and with those who were blessed with more, being the more accountable.
If they never hear and cast all their faith upon the mercy of god in Christ, then they will die in their sins and be sentenced according to what they did know, and to sin against the innate essence of the Law, is to sin against Christ, "the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. "(John 1:9)
You may argue that it is not fair that some are condemned despite not having explicitly heard the gospel, but God owes grace to no man, while those who obey the light they had will be given more light, leading to Christ, which is what Cornelius realized, and who was lost until he believed. (Acts 11:14)
And those who rejected the gospel will received "greater damnation.
But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. (Romans 2:2)
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: (Romans 1:20)
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: (Romans 2:14)
And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. (Luke 12:47-48)
Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. But it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment, than for you. (Luke 10:13-14)
f they are damned am I to be punished for not telling those in my lifetime who I could have reached?
If you have become born again, which few Catholics and mainline Prots have, then we will be chastened for not warning the wicked as Christ (whom we are to follow) and the apostles did, and calling them to repentant faith.
When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul. (Ezekiel 33:8-9)
Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. (Acts 20:26-27)
And when Silas and Timotheus were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ. And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean: from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles. (Acts 18:5-6)
And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee. (Acts 24:25)
Because we are all sinners and because Christ took all the punishment for our sins we have the potential of being saved,
The Roman and other Catholic churches have a solution for this which has been around well over a thousand years, Purgatory. Peter the Apostle said Christ went to the spirit world, some would say Purgatory, to preach to the spirits of those where there and as the disobedient as in the days of Noah.
You doctrine is false and your statement is contradictory. See here on RC EOs tend to reject RC Purgatory) as Gopd gives grace.
Christ took all the punishment for our sins then there would be no need to make expiation for them in Purgatory, which is one reason given for it, with the delusion that one attains perfection of character therein being the other.
Moreover, RC doctrine on Purgatory holds that it is for the saved, not such souls who were under damnation and thus slain in the days of Noah,
Doorbell rang. B back later.
Ping
This is a very popular question along with "Why does a loving God allow bad things to happen to good people?" I would suggest these question indicate wrong thinking.
God is a God of love. Trouble is man is evil and wants nothing to do with Him. It isn't God's problem but man. God keeps calling, man keeps rejecting. It's like trying to tell a liberal there is no such thing as climate change. The only way God can overcome this attitude is to change our wicked hearts.
As to why God allows bad things to happen to good people, one may wish to rephrase that statement as to why God allows good things to happen to bad people. If one starts to look at themselves as how really corrupt and sinful they are, then they can understand that God owes us nothing but hell. Yet He wants the very best for us including offering us eternal bliss, despite us nailing Him to a tree. We, OTOH, are arrogant enough to think God owes us something.
For works I would call your attention to the following:
John 6:28-29 Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”
Salvation isn't complicated. We just like to make it so with our own corrupt works. There is only one thing we need to do, and that is to believe on Him.
1st John is a excellent book for:
2) if we are truly born again then how we should walk in this sanctified process which should be evidence in our lives, (1st John 1:7, 1:9, 2:5, 2:6, 2:10, 4:21)
3) and, how we recognize deception within ourselves or others. (1st John 1:6, 1:8, 1:10, 2:4, 2:6, 2:9, 4:20)
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