Posted on 08/27/2019 1:58:22 PM PDT by ebb tide
Although it is now frequently claimed that the traditional Latin Mass (TLM) was never abrogated (totally abolished) following the Second Vatican Council, this position is squarely at odds not only with the lived experience of several generations of Catholics, but with the rapid and near total disappearance of the TLM within a brief period of time.
For many years after 1970, there was considerable confusion about the legal and sacramental status of the TLM following the publication of the new Missale Romanum of 1970. Throughout that time period, Pope Paul VI granted multiple permissions to specific people (like Padre Pio and St. Josemaría Escrivá), dioceses, and even nations (the U.K.) to continue to use the TLM despite the universal transition to the new missal.
(Excerpt) Read more at onepeterfive.com ...
Ping!
The sad reason for going to hell is a rejection of faith in Christ and Christ alone.
One participates in the Lord's Supper as a result of salvation; not as a means of salvation.
Then one is not participating in "The Lord's Supper."
Thanks, but Protestantism has left me unconvinced.
Then one is not participating in "The Lord's Supper."
Thanks, but Protestantism has left me unconvinced.
Perhaps you should consult the New Testament for Paul, moved by the Spirit wrote these words:
20Therefore when you meet together, it is not to eat the Lord’s Supper,
1 Corinthians 11:20 NASB
Rome can't even get the name of the event correct.
Here is something which is always true:
2 Corinthians 6:2
For He says: “In the time of favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you.” Behold, now is the time of favor; now is the day of salvation!
Hmm, that seems contradictory to what Paul said:
[Col 2:16-23 NASB] 16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-- 17 things which are a [mere] shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. 18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on [visions] he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God. 20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, 21 "Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!" 22 (which all [refer] [to] things destined to perish with use)--in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men? 23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, [but are] of no value against fleshly indulgence.
Ah, your Christian/Catholic attitude shines forth with a blinding light. True brotherhood in action.
(Read Luke 22:14-20 and let it enter your heart)
The Son of God, Who received all that He is, Divine and human, from the Father, "gives thanks," (Gr: Eucharistia) at the Last Supper in a way so great as to be incomprehensible: by pouring Himself out in a return of Love.
He gives thanks by giving everything, everything; and this Eucharistia is the gift which is the salvation of the human race, the redemption of the world.
It happens in time, at the Lord's Supper, and on the next day on the Cross: same Priest, same Victim, same Sacrifice, tothe same God and Father of us all. And it happens in timelessness (the Lamb that was slain before he foundation of the world.)
We also call the Mass the Holy Sacrifice because it mysteriously makes present the one, unique sacrifice of Christ and includes on the altar the offering of ourselves as well.
Yes, we become part of the Sacrifice.
Thus in the "timeless" sense Jesus, Who can neither deceive nor be deceived, said on the night He was betrayed, that this bread He blessed was His Body, and what the cup contained was the Blood of the New Covenant. This timelessness we enter into, and enters into us, when we receive Him at His word.
True Flesh, true Blood, in the Eucharist.
Though Christ be mocked because of this, He earnestly desired this. He gave thanksgiving (Eucharistia) to His Father for it: it is His gift to His Father and to us to receive, body and soul, for our well-being and redemption.
I’m not the one advertising I’ll never attend the Traditional Latin Mass. Even I will attend the Novus Ordo when no TLM is available.
Why don’t you go back to manhandling the Body of Christ as if It were an hor d’oeuvre, Warthog?
It's not contradictory to what Paul himself said about Christ dying for the salvation of the world, and us offering our lives with him, which is in what you yourself quoted (v. 20).
For the rest,Paul tells us we are free of Kosher dietary laws. ("Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle.")
There have been people right here on FR who have told me Christ must have been in the wrong when He said we should drink of the cup of His Blood, because blood is not kosher.
At the very least,you should see that Jesus' blood is that which cleanses, not that which is unclean (un- kosher.
Jesus is kosher and makes us kosher.
You looked at only a small part of that section. Paul is not talking about Kosher dietary laws, but about man-made religion, including self-abasement, worshipping angels, visions, etc.
But as you point out, if Jesus blood cleanses, He did not need to be in a clean womb to be born, as He made the womb clean.
"Why don’t you go back to manhandling the Body of Christ as if It were an hor d’oeuvre, Warthog?"
More truly Christian/Catholic Brotherhood language from Ebb. You prove my point with your every comment.
“Christian/Catholic”?
There’s a difference?
P.S. Where do you wash your hands after serving as an EEM?
But you're not just the son of a womb. You're the son of a mother, a person. A whole person gives birth to a whole person.
Mary isn't just a rent-a-womb, a sort of temporary reproductive inncubator-concubine or surrogate IVF gestational carrier.
When the Ambassador from the Court of the Most High, Gabriel, said Mary was the perfected-highly-favored, he wasn't just referring to her uterus.
So God her Savior made His mother's whole human nature clean. She was clean from the beginning of her human existence, just as Eve was clean at the beginning of her human existence. (I'm speaking of that blessed Paradisal season prior to the time when Eve blew it, of course.)
If Mary were not as pure-from-the-git-go as Eve was, she would have had a human nature inferior to that of Eve.
That can't be right, because God equips each person fitly for the role they will play in relation to Him.
And nobody had a higher role to play in relation to Him, as being the Mother of the Incarnation.
What do you think all those "begats" are about which the OT so reverently preserves? Fourteen generation, and then another 14 generations, and then another 14 generations, and it goes on, begat-begat-begat. Jesus' genealogy.
What's that got to do with Salvation History? Why should they care? What relevance has genealogy to Salvation? What's happening here?
What's happening here is that Jesus, the spotless Savior, son of God, must be son of a woman; and through all those generations, God is preparing pure seed.
And then ... at the fullness of time..
`
`
Perhaps you'd be kind enough to explain what you're getting at?
No, only once Jesus was in the womb was it made pure, just as those who were ill where made pure by His touch. To say more than that goes beyond what scripture teaches.
"Scripture" doesn't teach either one. However, the CHURCH, does, and the Church doesn't agree with you.
Scripture plainly shows that whatever Jesus touched did not make him unclean, and in fact, he caused people to be clean. It is not unreasonable to assume that Jesus made the womb clean based on the other scriptures. But, you are right, the scriptures don’t explicitly say that. So perhaps Mary’s womb wasn’t clean.
However, it is not reasonable to assume that Mary was born clean, as then her mother would have had to have been clean as well, and so in in an endless regression back to Eve, who clearly was not pure after the fall. Otherwise, God would do for Mary what He wouldn’t do for Jesus, which is allow for a sinless being to be carried in a sinful body.
| John O' Brien, Roman Catholic Priest in the Faith of Millions. | Hebrews 9:24-28 | Hebrews 10:11-13 |
| When the priest pronounces the tremendous words of consecration, he reaches up into the heavens, brings Christ down from His throne, and places Him upon our altar to be offered up again as the Victim for the sins of man. It is a power greater than that of monarchs and emperors: it is greater than that of saints and angels, greater than that of Seraphim and Cherubim. Indeed it is greater even than the power of the Virgin Mary. While the Blessed Virgin was the human agency by which Christ became incarnate a single time, the priest brings Christ down from heaven, and renders Him present on our altar as the eternal Victim for the sins of man—not once but a thousand times! The priest speaks and lo! Christ, the eternal and omnipotent God, bows His head in humble obedience to the priest’s command. |
24For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own. 26Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, 28so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him. |
Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, 13waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET. 14For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. |
In light of the virgin birth, I think "reasonable" is not a standard one can apply here.
However, before one insists on finding all the details the Catholic Church teaches in Scripture, one must first demonstrate that "...every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God" is contained in Scripture as that is how Jesus refuted the devil on what man shall live by.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.