Posted on 06/13/2019 8:56:39 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
It’s times like these I appreciate the simplicity and ageless depth of Catholic teaching.
$100 says he porks her... he’s not going to pork her Russ.
There used to be a thing called CHAPERONES ( In the film the SOUND OF MUSIC, The Captain Von Trapp and his then, fiance, The Baroness had to be chaperoned by Max Detweiler as he takes her from Vienna to his home in Salzburg. Yes, TWO WIDOWED ADULTS !! ).
I guess that tradition is now passe.
The stolen fruit is the sweetest...
Piper is correct.
We play with sin and don’t take it seriously. We go right up to the edge with it.
Proverbs 6:27 paraphrased says, “Can a man (woman) hold fire to his chest and not get burned?”
In Scripture adultery is absolutely forbidden.
But guess what? The act of marriage however it is dressed up is ultimately the man and woman becoming one flesh.
So the first time, well, don’t be surprised to find that the Lord considers that becoming one flesh and thus the marriage.
So the first time can be a freebie ... and a commitment. Just because you didn’t think it was may not matter.
Some reason why they don’t just get married?
people need to understand that just because God doesn’t act to punish sin right away, that they are NOT getting away with sin- Sure, nothing happens for awhile, but consider this- you have very likely forfeited blessings, and later, God will hold you accountable somehow- sometimes in a very severe manner- such as King David when his sons rebelled against him later-
Again, just because nothing happens immediately after sinning, does not mean God forgets about it- (You are never guilty as far as salvation goes, BUT, we DO pay for our sins- the consequences of our actions)
God is VERY serious about sin folks- don’t just blow it off- Don’t be deceived by Satan to think it’s not all the serious- it is- There comes a day of reckoning- and it can be pretty bad- be smart- obey God in the power of the Holy Spirit- (don’t try to obey on your own- that is legalism-), and live with all the blessings He has in store for you now on earth- Yes, we will continue ot sin- but when we fall, we need to realize we will get what we deserve, but that God is a gracious God who has forgiven us completely in regards to eternal salvation- and strive to serve Him for His graciousness-
We tend to think we’re invulnerable, that God would never actually hold us accountable for our continual sins- Bzzzt- wrong answer-
“for a trip we scheduled five months ago”
What are they waiting for?
Get married.
I think we used to say “avoid near occasions of sin” and “avoid giving scandal”.
Some of us still do ...
This piece was overly dense/detailed, and too much of squeamish Piper and not enough of the purity of Jesus, who by the way had numerous female friends.
And the very celibate apostle Paul STAYED the night at the homes of single women on his travels, who offered him much in the way of hospitality if I am not mistaken. Regardless even if not, the above treatise(?) reveals the weakness inherent in Evangelical reliance on personal opinion— due to lack of a cohesive worldview that the Catholic Church is better equipped to articulate.
... A cohesive ‘theology of the body’ and a sacramental grasp of the spiritual institution of marriage...The glory and burdens of celibacy, the virtue of modesty in women, the chivalry of men, etc...— such beautiful, simple, yet profound truths and values could be communicated with so much less.
It just feels intrusive and violating when a pastor gets THIS involved in EVERY little detail of a Christian’s life! Piper is consulted like some guru on on just about every topic. What color curtains should Christians have etc...( I’m being facetious...and I don’t like his judgmental comments on Trump either.) But isn’t Protestantism about Biblical literacy and letting the Holy Spirit be your guide? Why is the Pastor chiming in so much?
And I say this as someone who frequently attends Evangelical studies and functions.
Another weakness of Evangelical culture unfortunately is a puritanical relationship to sex (and anything related to the senses including Art hence why there’s so little of it in that world) and yet a totally anti-spiritual/modernist approach to contraception...and other bioethical matters that bears little distinction from the greater pagan world. Bad combination.
There is a way of being chaste and not suffocated.
Perhaps, but I think mom is struggling with her own lust issues.
Before my wife and I married, we were also leaders of a religious program, and lived in proper celibacy as single Christians. Our biggest problem was the nosey gossipy church ladies, who constantly offered us "advice" and judged us.
Meanwhile their own kids were running wild, and many had kids with many different baby daddies.
Who had the idea of the trip first?
That will tell you everything you need to know.
“I’m troubled in wondering if we are dishonoring God by traveling together before marriage.”
I think he’s got bigger things he’s concerned with.
If you are walking together, you are doing the same thing, lady.
Also Kramer had to chaperone Jerry on his date with the beauty queen pageant contestant.
o Is this young couple even formally engaged to be married?
o Are they old enough for that?
o Is the counsel on a unilateral basis that excludes either the mother and/or the "boyfriend" as a part of the counseling?
In another, older, more properly mannered culture, the young unmarried woman would travel nowhere without her mother or a reliable older female or married couple as trusted chaperone(s). But that would not be likely if the trip was just to get the girl and boy together apart from her/their broader Christian family.
All in all, it is clear here that neither the girl or her boy friend sre spiritually mature enough to conduct themselves without some kind of oversight.
If the girl here was actually mature enough to see to her own affairs, then her relationship with her mother should be that of a younger woman to a senior, mature, experienced advisor in matters of occupation and conduct, whether married or not. This aspect is well and entirely covered in the brief comprehensive (but not exhaustive) passage of Titus 2:3-5 (AV):
The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;In this case, with the proper wholesome relationship between the concerned mother and a daughter who is adult enough to have overcome the wicked one (see 1 Jn. 2:13,14), this should not have to be bumped up to the church elder's attention.
That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
The young man, her boy friend, also ought to be able to discern a need to protect his own reputation as well as that of his as-yet-unbetrothed girl friend, by not even having suggested that they have such an adventure in view. Continuing the Titus passage through the next verses 6, 7, and 8:
Young men likewise exhort to be sober minded. In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,I would think that covers the whole situation from God's viewpoint and worthy of taking heed for the benefit of all concerned.
Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.
Do you spend time alone dating now in the US? What would be the difference?
Do the separate hotel rooms have an adjoining door?
Whether yes or no, I’d suggest making mama happy, and putting temptation further away, by agreeing to stay in different hotels.
My daughter is maid of honor for a wedding of two Christians. They wanted to go to his families beach house for a few days and invited my daughter to come as their chaperone.
It’s rare, refreshing and still done.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.