The way it also makes sense to me is if its post trib then the dead will rise to meet Jesus in the clouds to merely return to earth for the millennium reign.
Sounds like two Second Comings.
Pre or post? Don’t care, my ticket is punched and I’ve read the book and know how it ends.
I simply cannot understand how Satan can continue to blind the eyes of so many who openly profess to believe in Jesus.
“What” you say? Jesus himself said “he did no know many who used his name”
Why did Jesus say more than once, that some standing with him there would “SEE” him return in his glory? If he was lying or was a fool.
Even CJ Lewis wrote of this:
It is clear from the New Testament that they all expected the Second Coming in their own lifetime. And worse still, they had a reason, and one which you will find very embarrassing. Their Master had told them so. He shared, and indeed created,their Delusion. He said in so many words, this generation shall not pass till all these things be done.
And he was wrong. He clearly knew no more about the end of the world than anyone else. It is certainly the most embarrassing verse in the Bible.
Jesus told us that his Kingdom was not of this world, so why do so many wait with bated breath for him to return to build his kingdom here on Earth?
So many do not understand:
The Jews then responded to him, “What sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?”
19Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”
20They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?”
21But the temple he had spoken of was his body.
22After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.
So instead of being t=like CJ Lewis and reasoning that Jesus was WRONG ....”And he was wrong. He clearly knew no more about the end of the world than anyone else.”
Perhaps one should read and discern what the Holy Scriptures actually say and QUESTION their own understanding before that of Christ’s.
Oh Jesus said when the could see the armies gathering the walls of Jerusalem to “Flee” and stop for nothing, not even to pick up a coat. Think on this a moment. You are at work, doing your job and you look up and 40 - 60% of the work force is gone. Hot coffee cups still on their desks, computer left on. What would you think, where did they go? Only those who listened to Jesus in those days knew what was happening nd they fled, just like he told them to.
Rapture, I suggest those that follow this belief listen to what Paul is saying. He said in an instant we will all be changed (in a twinkling of an eye)
Read some history; there were more than one historian recording history back in those days.
Why would a man think that “his” understanding has the power of veto over the words of Christ? The answer is simple: Satan, the Father of the lie. John 8:44
At the latest it would be mid-trib. The Bible clearly teaches the Church is not appointed to wrath, and as the bowl judgements are clearly spelled out as God pouring out his wrath it would follow the Church would not be present at that time.
the answer is BOTH
I think the total number of “raptures” mentioned in the bible is either 7 or 9. Enoch and Elijah are 2.
The pre-tribulation rapture is of the bride of Christ... those who’s names are already written in the Lamb’s book of life... “for we are not appointed unto wrath”
The post-tribulation rapture occurs towards the end of the tribulation period just before the final battle when Jesus comes with all the saints to conclude the tribulation period.
Those left on earth during the tribulation must not only accept Jesus as Lord, they must also “endure to the end” and NOT take the mark of the beast to be saved.
It’s all confused and confusing because pick a premise and dogma camp... any and all = theories of men who reason amongst themselves, like the Pharisees and Sadducees. History is prophecy.
Contrast Rebecca, who inquired of the Lord.
It’s not like what people are feasting on from all the end-times merchandize.
Same for the Messiah... he’s been turned into a bizarre “trans” caracature not resembling a man, his visage has been so marred.
Anyone expecting a down-to-earth, anti-establishment man who can show people how to love others and live simply without all the “intellectual” confusion and endless debate masquerading as Biblical knowledge? Didn’t think so.
A guy like that would be run out of Dodge or worse because he’d put the experts out of business, to put it nicely.
The jig is up for the established order.
In getting back to basics, the Messiah will lead many to his barn, where he will assign them to cleaning the animal stalls, if they even make it into the Kingdom. And they’ll be grateful and motivated, or else be cast out.
Besides, there’s a red flag tell concerning those who are gunning for the exits. A good way to efficiently get rid of dead weight is to inspire them to self-deport. Work smart, not hard.
Why would you want rapture before the coming? Miss out on all the fun during tribulation?
I have never understood why people think the tribulation is seven years.
I thought Jesus laid it out pretty clear - the tribulation starts with the destruction of the temple and city - and then ends with his coming. I’ve never heard anyone explain how this is not the case.
“But if the Rapture occurs at the end of the Tribulation, it must be simultaneous with the Second Coming, making them one event. Which is it: two events separated by seven years, or one event with two diverse purposes?
... The descriptions in Scripture of the Rapture and Second Coming respectively are so different in so many details that they could not possibly be describing the same occurrence.”
This is where the author sets up a false premise that undermines his own argument. The Second Coming is one event, and the First Resurrection (which some call “the rapture”) is a separate event that happens to coincide with the Second Coming. The fact that two events are described differently does not preclude the fact that those two events happen in close succession, as Scripture clearly describes.
“In contrast, at the Second Coming there is no resurrection until Antichrist is defeated, he and the false prophet have been cast alive into a lake of fire (Rev:19:20 ) and Satan has been bound in the bottomless pit [for] a thousand years (20:1-3) none of which is even remotely related to the rapture of believers to heaven.”
This is simply false. Revelation describes both a first and a second resurrection. The author is citing verses about the second resurrection and then falsely claiming that “there is no resurrection” before that, when the book he is citing explicitly talks about a prior resurrection and even names them the “first” and “second” resurrection so there can be no mistaking the proper chronological order.
“Then, to the first resurrection which occurred at the Rapture...”
... and here the author completely destroys his own premise by admitting that there WAS a prior resurrection, even though he just a couple sentences before claimed there was none. The author claims this resurrection “occurred at the Rapture” but of course cites nothing to demonstrate that, because if we read the relevant verses of Revelation, it clearly takes place at the end of the tribulation.
Ping. Interesting, but it still does not convince me that the church is getting out of the tribulation period, and I have great respect for the late Dave Hunt and the Berean Call ministry.
People always point out that God says Christians are not appointed to wrath, but remember Psalm 91, the whole chapter, but specifically verses 5 through 8:
5 Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;
6 Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.
7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
As always, though, I hope I’m wrong and there IS a “secret” return of Jesus before His second return at the end of this world.
Well written and includes so many Scripture passages that it amazes me how some people can still deny that the Rapture WILL happen before the Tribulation. In fact, I can easily see how the Rapture might start the whole seventieth week of Daniel. When millions of people suddenly disappear there has to be a “sellable” explanation for it to settle the shear panic that will ensue. I can see how the Antichrist could be ushered in spewing signs and wonders in order to sell his lie which will be convincing enough to deceive the world into following him. For all we know, he could say it was aliens!
Doesn’t matter to me - ether way it’s gonna be....rapturous...
firmly in the pre trib camp here. it there is a third possibility the pre wrath (mid trib) rapture. maranatha!
#1 is incorrect - Jesus specifically says His Kingdom is not of this world — Jesus will not come as an earthy King.
Yeah ... I don't understand it ...
I tell my peers that preterism is the easiest eschatological system to dispense with as it teeters on so much horrid theological method ... but because they scream the loudest ... we must be diligent.