Posted on 04/05/2019 11:09:54 AM PDT by patriot torch
Sermon for Sunday, July 10, 2016. This is the ninety-third sermon preached in English on www.thecloudchurch.org. It was preached by Pastor/Missionary Evangelist Robert Breaker, who shows what the Bible says about "apostasy" and how we are now in that time period prophesied of many years ago!
(Excerpt) Read more at youtube.com ...
The Apostle Paul wrote:
Galatians 1:6-10 King James Version (KJV)
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
Do you agree the time is short before the fulfillment of Prophecy written thousands of years ago?
Do you believe we are currently living in a time known as the Laodicean Church. (REV: 3:14-22)
Following this video in this series is a prophesied event known as the Rapture of the Church.
The simplest apostasy is the Heresy of Ba’al of Peor. Jesus had tolerance for individuals who had fallen sexually, and no tolerance for institutions which had abrogated to themselves the rights only of God. When the marriage chamber becomes an alcove of the god-free zone, there’s no simple correction.
Sorry to clue you but this isn’t the end times.
Study history in addition to Scripture.
Back in 70AD when Rome layed siege to Jerusalem, many Christians and Jews also thought this was the end times.
Everyone who stayed in the city were killed.
In ‘72 in Israel, the Jewish military and much of the Jewish people thought they were blessed and watched over by G_d and so when the USA sent them a communication that they were about to be invaded in ‘73, they ignored it.
If it wasn’t for Nixon resupplying Israel after the ‘73 war, Israel would have fallen.
WW2 was FAR, FAR worse than where we are now.
Entire cites were burned to the ground and est 70-85 million killed.
And again, Jesus didn’t show up to rescue us.
WW1 could be considered almost as bad but it was much of a Christian vs Christian war.
40 Million dead all fighting a pointless war started by the Political Elite trying to keep their power in Europe.
Christians on both sides of the fence saw G_d on their side.
Now is the time to be watchful because the day may come soon when the Weaponized Left does the same thing to the USA as the Kumar Rouge did to Cambodia.
The day may come that all Americans will have to decide if we will tolerate the insanity brought to us by the Obama years, surrender to it as the Jews did during WW2, seek shelter elsewhere or fight against it.
Many conflate much of the passage in Luke 21 with the Olivet Discourse. Luke 21 was spoken in the Temple. Then Jesus with a few came down from the Temple Mount and went over to the Mount of Olives, where the disciples asked, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
The 'when will these things be' refers to what Jesus said of the destruction of Jerusalem and the complete destruction of the Temple. But they asked for signs of His coming and the end times, so Jesus related to them that temporally distant scene.
Quote~ “Sorry to clue you but this isn’t the end times.
Study history in addition to Scripture.”
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I can appreciate your beliefs, but with all due respect, we have a difference of beliefs.
Yes, times were bad in 70AD, as were the times during WWII.
As a Christian, I love the Jewish people. They are the Apple of God’s Eye. And the Covenant God made with Abraham will come to pass. And when that time comes, the borders of Israel will be enlarged. That title and deed was placed in the oldest known Register of Deeds.
But first, there will come an even greater time of persecution then has already been established. So great a time that Jesus even stated:
Matthew 24: 21-22
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.
The time of fulfillment was not yet in either of those examples. Why, because Israel had yet to receive her True Messiah. Had Israel received Jesus as Savior 2,000 years ago, He would have set up His Kingdom then. He would have “rescued Israel from the Romans” as well as from Hitler.
He came first as a Lamb to the slaughter because the Crucifixion had to take place first for the remission of sins. But when He returns He will return as the Lion of Judah.
Hebrews 9:15-17
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
There is coming a time of prophetic fulfillment which is known as the time of Jacobs troubles. At that time (soon to come) Israel will nearly be destroyed by the coming Battle of Armageddon. At that time, Israel will receive Jesus as Savior and will “then” return, and will rescue Israel. And then shall come to pass...
Zechariah 13:6
“And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.”
For these prophetic times to come to pass, the Fig Tree had to blossom. This came to pass in 1948. I’m sure your well aware of that. Israel had to also come into control of Jerusalem, hence, 1968. And reaffirmed in ‘72.
But the idea that Israel was rescued by Richard Nixon is not entirely correct though he may have been the vessel chosen to be used of Divine intervention. So yes, Jesus did have His Hand of protection upon Israel even then.
John 1:10-12
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
His Crucifixion was Prophesied long ago:
Isaiah 53 King James Version (KJV)
53 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?
2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Not only had Jesus Commissioned Himself (as a member of the Triune Godhead) to fulfill the Law (the Old Testament) but His Death was followed by many set in defense of the Gospel of Christ. His own Disciples were martyred. But it was not as though Jesus Abandoned them, but rather...
They followed by the example set by Christ:
John 15:12-14 King James Version (KJV)
12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Paul was first mentioned in the Book of Acts, named Saul then:
at the stoning of Stephen, when Stephen called on his fellow countrymen to look up and receive Jesus as He was Ascending:
Acts 9 King James Version (KJV)
9 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.
3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
Paul, then, as a threat and a persecutor of the early church, had a Damascus Rd experience.
He soon became the chosen vessel to be used by God as an Apostle unto the Gentiles.
Galatians 2:7-9 King James Version (KJV)
7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)
9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
Paul however did not abandon the Jews, but rather reaffirmed His higher calling:
Philippians 3 King James Version (KJV)
1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
“Back in 70AD when Rome layed siege to Jerusalem, many Christians and Jews also thought this was the end times.
Everyone who stayed in the city were killed.”
I believe that only non-Christians were killed during that siege. The Christians followed Christ’s instructions and fled. Over a million non-Christian Jews were killed.
“Sorry to clue you but this isn’t the end times.
Study history in addition to Scripture.”
Peter attributed Joel’s prophecy of the “Last Days” to the coming of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost:
Acts 2:16-21
But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
“And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.
I will show wonders in heaven above
And signs in the earth beneath:
Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.
And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Shall be saved.”
“Back in 70AD when Rome layed siege to Jerusalem, many Christians and Jews also thought this was the end times.
Everyone who stayed in the city were killed.”
I believe that only non-Christians were killed during that siege. The Christians followed Christ’s instructions and fled. Over a million non-Christian Jews were killed.
“Sorry to clue you but this isn’t the end times.
Study history in addition to Scripture.”
Peter attributed Joel’s prophecy of the “Last Days” to the coming of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost:
Acts 2:16-21
But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
“And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.
I will show wonders in heaven above
And signs in the earth beneath:
Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.
And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Shall be saved.”
“Do you agree we are living in a time of the falling away of Sound Doctrine?”
Ironically, our FRiend on the other thread (who is also posting on this one), denies that there even is an “apostasy” or “falling away” connected to end times prophecy.
Pre-trib proponents are resorting to the claim that the “apostasia” in 2 Thessalonians 2 is the rapture.
Of course, many passages warn of deception, false prophets, false teachers, and even false messiahs. And these are clearly connected with the end times.
There is confusion between the Day of the Lord and Daniel’s seventieth week. And there is confusion over the relationship between the Church and Israel.
Quote~ “Pre-trib proponents are resorting to the claim that the “apostasia” in 2 Thessalonians 2 is the rapture.”
I also believe 1 THES. 2:3 Refers to the rapture. There are a lot of disagreements on this, many claim, as do I, that the translation should have read “departure” instead of falling away.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
I”m also comfortable with the falling away translation in reference to falling away from Sound Doctrine.
Either translation however, I believe will, or has already come to pass as in reference to the falling away.
Quote~
Peter attributed Joel’s prophecy of the “Last Days” to the coming of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost:
Acts 2:16-21
But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
“And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.
I will show wonders in heaven above
And signs in the earth beneath:
Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.
And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Shall be saved.”
_________________________________________________________
Notice the difference when Peter quoted Joel:
Joel 2:28
28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
*the word ‘afterward’ refers to the prophecies predicted in 30-32.
The phrase, “And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh” What began on the day of Pentecost, it will carry through into the coming tribulation period for fulfillment of this prophecy.
Quote~ “I believe that only non-Christians were killed during that siege. The Christians followed Christ’s instructions and fled. Over a million non-Christian Jews were killed.”
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I agree, in fact, when Jesus was answering His Disciples when asked:
Luke 21:7
“7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?”
He assured His followers who were before Him at the time:
Luke 21:18
“18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.”
*He was speaking of the coming destruction of Jerusalem in A.D.70. (as you stated, and I agree)
Do you find you often accuse folks of what you wish they had said rather than stick to what they actually say?
Quote~ “Seeing we are in a time of apostasy I would not say there is no falling away from sound doctrine. I do reason that the use of apostasia in 2 Thess 2 is The Departure, for the passages following confirm that He who is restraining will be taken out of the way. Since Pentacost the Holy Spirit in the believers has been restraining lawlessness. Will the Holy Spirit be absent from earth during the Tribulation? Absolutely not, for a number so great John could not number it will come into Heaven, and that is a work of the Holy Spirit to bring them there. But they are not The Bride of Christ, they are invited guests for the wedding.”
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I agree fully.
“Seeing we are in a time of apostasy I would not say there is no falling away from sound doctrine. I do reason that the use of apostasia in 2 Thess 2 is The Departure, for the passages following confirm that He who is restraining will be taken out of the way.”
Yes, I didn’t mean to imply that you do not believe there is an apostasy. I was pointing out the irony because the word “apostasia” is only used twice in the New Testament, as I pointed out in that other thread. So the 2 Thessalonians 2 passage is the only “apostasy” mentioned in the context of false Christian teaching. So, my comment is not about your general position on what we call apostasy today, but simply on the use of the word in a Biblical sense.
I never doubted for a minute that you believe there will be (or already is) an apostasy of the end times, but just that the origin of this word rests on a singular passage which your camp says is not really an apostasy but the rapture. Anyway, if you feel the need to correct the record I understand. I didn’t cc you or use your FR name because I felt you did not want to continue debating the issues we had discussed in length.
In fact, some pre-trib proponents are so adamant about their position I suspect they consider the pre-wrath position to be apostasy. But I think this is particularly narrow minded on a subject which God has clearly made difficult to figure out. There is nothing quite like navigating the waters of Biblical eschatology to test the very roots of a person’s theology. (Well, maybe the topic of election.) Even small nuances tend to come out I feel. And personally I think it is a topic which requires continual learning and study. I don’t think any of us will have everything all figured out in advance.
“Since Pentacost the Holy Spirit in the believers has been restraining lawlessness.”
I’d say the opposite is true. The Holy Spirit convicts and reproves the world, but the world just resists. The more the world resists the Holy Spirit, the more wicked it becomes. Lawlessness abounds. It is getting worse. I think the Holy Spirit is only purifying believers, not the world. The Lord specifically described the Holy Spirit as He whom the world does not receive.
“Do you find you often accuse folks of what you wish they had said rather than stick to what they actually say?”
I don’t think I did so. But you did make your assertions and then decide it was not worth your time to defend them, reason about them or the points I brought up, or do further study on the matter, as it would appear your mind is made up no matter what evidence is presented.
You’ve made some strong assertions, but most of the evidence you’ve presented are simple links to huge lists of articles, etc. The quality of these articles is very good. However, if you wish to actually persuade someone to make a change or correction in something that you believe is in error, it is necessary to get more specific and do the heavy lifting. I understand if you don’t have the time. Many people have very busy lives. I’m not complaining or faulting you. I’m just pointing out that your approach does not warrant becoming condescending to others who disagree.
Unless you can produce credentials of your apostolic authority, or at least argue why others should respect whatever authority in Bible scholarship you do have (because we both know neither of us is an apostle, but we both are quite familiar with and have studied the Bible extensively), then you need to make your case or simply accept that it is unreasonable for you to expect others to just agree with you because you have asserted something strenuously.
I have asserted things as well. But the difference is that I have taken the time to defend my position and support it with scripture with very specific details and explanations of my reasonings and thought processes. I do not simply point others to a website or even just tell them to study the whole Bible, expecting them to see the light. I also am willing to be proven wrong, and would prefer this over being wrong, so that I can be corrected if I am wrong.
Just to be clear, I respect you for your contributions on the subject. I am just not persuaded at this time based on the arguments I’ve heard up to this point. This is not to say that I don’t consider some arguments worthy of consideration. They are. But I am weighing the subject as a whole, based on the things I am familiar with. Others, such as yourself, have their own framework and knowledge to draw upon. This is why we come to different conclusions. Ultimately the errors we have will be corrected, but hopefully that will be BEFORE the Lord returns.
My biggest concern on this subject is that Christians in the west who have never suffered persecution are going to be woefully unprepared and greatly disillusioned to discover the Church must face the antichrist. I believe this will be a large contributing factor to the “falling away” and the betrayals that Christ spoke of in connection with this time period. I believe this will contribute to the susceptibility of many to following false messiahs because many are not truly born again and rather than being awakened by being “left behind” at the rapture, they will be “swept away with the error of the wicked.” This will also lead to the mockers that Peter said would come.
I remain of the pre-wrath persuasion. If you care to address the specific challenges and assertions I have made on the subject, your views are welcome. If not, I understand as well, and I do appreciate what you have contributed to the subject thus far.
“*the word ‘afterward’ refers to the prophecies predicted in 30-32.”
Peter essentially interprets for us that “afterwards” in this passage is a way of saying “in the Last Days.”
“See the following video at 9:50”
There are a number of problems with the paradigm presented in this video. First, placing Paul under the Grace part of the timeline and asserting that he alone spoke of the rapture undermines a large part of the New Testament, which is coherent in its doctrine.
There is a cohesive whole to the “mystery” Paul speaks of. The reason Paul makes such an ardent point about his unique experience and revelations is because, during his lifetime, many rejected his apostleship. So, he had to defend it. He was not trying to claim his message was unique from the other apostles in terms of what the church needed to hear. Yes, he was especially commissioned by God to carry the Gospel to the Gentiles, but other apostles participated in this also. And Paul himself always sought to reach the Jews first wherever he took the Gospel.
It is true that Christ was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. But He also spoke about what was coming. The Gospels repeatedly allude to the coming grace on the Gentiles, the coming of the Holy Spirit, Gentiles having faith, and Christ’s other sheep who would ultimately be one fold with one Shepherd. Further, the Gospels were written during the Church age, as a historical account. The apostles were taught the mysteries of the kingdom by way of the parables of Christ.
There was an overlap of the early New Testament Church and temple worship. The temple remained for decades. And the apostles, including Paul, participated in its use during the church age / age of superabounding grace, which continues even now. The Jewish believers, including Paul, continued to adhere to Moses. But partial blindness fell upon the nation of Israel. “Partial” is not meant in the sense that all of Israel could see but saw only partly. No, it means that Israel as a nation was blinded, but some citizens of Israel received their sight. Paul was among these. Paul wrote about this extensively, and particularly he addresses the relationship between the Church and Israel in the context of Joel 2 in Romans 9-11.
Jerusalem was not ransacked, Jews were not driven out of it, and the temple was not destroyed immediately after the Church began. The Church and Israel existed side by side for decades. And, in the same way, the Church will coexist (as it does now) while God’s sovereign plan for Israel resumes. It will resume for the time known as Daniel’s seventieth week. Also, it is important to note that the distinction between God’s operation through the Church and through Israel revolve around this blindness. This blindness is partial AND temporary. The veil is going to be taken away. So, their blindness led to the salvation of the Gentiles as the Gospel came to us. But the Church age will continue until Israel’s blindness is taken away. This is NOT at the onset of Daniel’s seventieth week. It is at the Day of the Lord. When Israel receives her sight again, it will be “life from the dead”, i.e. the rapture.
Daniel’s seventieth week is distinct from the Day of the Lord, though they are connected. The Church began, as a fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy, by the coming of the Holy Spirit. The Church age will end with the rapture and arrival of the Day of the Lord. Thus, the signs in the heavens, which indicate that the Day of the Lord is imminent, are part of the discussion in Acts 2.
A simple study of the Day of the Lord in scripture will uncover the fact that it is not the same as Daniel’s seventieth week. However, evidence in many passages, including the Olivet discourse and Revelation 6 show that it follows immediately after the Great Tribulation.
Another problem with the paradigm in the video is that it treats Daniel’s seventieth week as a return to the dispensation of Law. The Law and Grace are both part of God’s dealings with men, and they coexist but are distinct just as Israel and the Church coexist but are distinct. The Law and Grace also work in harmony. The Law shows us our need for salvation from our sins. Grace provides us the means for this salvation. Non-Christian Jews still are under the Law. They continue to try to achieve righteousness by the Law but fail to do so, as all of us do apart from grace. When “all Israel shall be saved” it will be by grace and not by the Law. Daniel’s seventieth week will be a time in which Israel is delivered from her corporate blindness, “look on Him whom they have pierced” (as we all have), and mourn in repentance. Then the purpose of Daniel’s seventieth week can be accomplished.
If you are born again by the Spirit of God you have placed in your spirit the Holy Spirit Who restrains YOU from lawlessness. If HE the Holy Spirit is not in you you practice lawlessness. He Who now restrains is The Holy Spirit. HE is restraining the children of GOD from lawlessness and thereby restraining the world from complete lawlessness.
So long as HE is restraining us from lawlessness we are the salt of the Earth. If you witness someone who is held up as a Pastor or Priest and they are practicing lawlessness *as in pedophilia or homosexuality, or thievery, or adultery, etc. is the Holy Spirit in them? ONLY God knows, BUT we would lean toward 'no, the Holy Spirit would restrain such lawlessness.'
I know how I lived before I was born from above. Lawlessness is a mild word to define my living. I also know Whom it is within me Who restrains me from lawlessness now. That all said, let's look again at the passage in question and I am going to insert the direct Greek translation:
2 Thess 2:3No one should deceive you in any way, because it is not until The Apostasia shall have come first, and the man of lawlessness shall have been revealed/U>—the son of destruction, 4the one opposing and exalting himself above every so-called god or object of worship—so as for him to sit down in the temple of God, setting forth that he himself is God.
As you know the first several translation of that passage used The Departure for ἡ ἀποστασία. The other place apostasia is sued is when Paul is accused of leading Jews away from Judaism. To the Jews it could be characterized as apostasy to Judaism. To me as a Christian it is not leading Jews into apostasy it is leading them to salvation in Jesus Christ, as neither Jew nor Gentile. But let's go further and find the context in which Paul uses The Apostasia.,p>
2 Thess 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is working already; there is only the one at present restraining it, until he might be gone out of the midst. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed.
Paul repeated his assertion, that first The Departure then the lawless one be revealed. AND since the lawless one has not yet been revealed, Who do you think is still around restraining lawlessness in US? Paul repeats the lesson because the Thessalonians had been persuaded that The Day of The Lord had arrived because they were being persecuted. Paul tells them THAT DAY will not arrive until the lawless one is revealed. And the lawless one will not be revealed before The Departure.
By the Grace of God in Christ you do not have to be here to see the lawless one revealed, because if you are born from above the Holy Spirit work in you restraining lawlessness in you works to restrain the lawless one from being revealed. BUT when you with the Holy Spirit restraining lawlessness in you and thus in the world (not preventing it in every case, restraining it) is taken out of the way from restraining, the lawless one can be revealed.
16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and God our Father, the One having loved us and having given us eternal comfort and good hope by grace, 17 may He encourage your hearts and may He strengthen them in every good work and word. Do you think it would have encouraged the Thessalonians to hear that they were going to see the lawless one and be persecuted in the lawlessness during the Tribulation?
Here is an excellent video explaining the issue and why the translation of The Departure changed with the Rheims version and then the King James version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSpgqCtBE5o
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