This thread has been locked, it will not receive new replies. |
Locked on 05/26/2018 9:25:39 PM PDT by Religion Moderator, reason:
Childish, personal, and attacks |
Posted on 05/26/2018 7:00:33 AM PDT by tiredofallofit
God is outside time. He sees all at once whether or not we will choose His will or our own, without causing it. To think God dictates who will choose rebellion because He knows the outcome is to deny His extremely great gift of freedom by which He wants to give us His divinity as much as we the adopted are able to receive it. The situation has been likened to God being the Author of a story in which He writes all the characters and knows what they will do. But the added mystery is that He enters the story Himself as a character, Jesus.
Judging by other articles at the site, Robert Messner appears to be another hypocrite liberal trolling Christianity in order to further his book sales.
God knows that all will fail to be perfect. We know it too. No one ever claims that they are perfect and deserve heaven. They only declare that they are “good” and that God needs to cut them some slack.
It is our nature. I have read the Institutes and am familiar with that section. By knowing that all will fall short and be condemned, God does effectively predestine all to go to hell except for those who he chooses to rescue by predestining that they go to heaven.
I will remain Calvinist. It is the only consistent theology. And if I am wrong, well, I was “good” and God will certainly cut me some slack.
But you know what? If the non-Calvinist is wrong, it doesn’t matter either since God will still predestine that they will go one way or the other upon death. The good news is that another very important doctrine of Calvinism is that a person can only be concerned about this if their heart is regenerated and that means that they were predestined to salvation.
So, when an Arminian is preaching about the evils of Calvinism because he cares about Jesus and the souls of the world, well he can care because God chose for him to care.
The only practical difference between Calvinism and the alternative in the earthly life of a Christian is that the Calvinist understands why it is ok to stop evangelizing to a person who cannot hear.
And if anyone will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet when you leave that house or town. (Matt 10:14 ESV)
Why would God Predestine some to Heaven, others to Hell, when God gave Adam and Eve “free will” to either obey or disobey His request not to eat the fruit of a given tree?
We all have the opportunity to love God and keep His Commandments. We can be forgiven our sins in Baptism and Confession as God is merciful. God iS love and HE wants us to LOVE Him and our neighbors.
>>God is outside time. He sees all at once whether or not we will choose His will or our own, without causing it. To think God dictates who will choose rebellion because He knows the outcome is to deny His extremely great gift of freedom by which He wants to give us His divinity as much as we the adopted are able to receive it.
That’s a nice workaround, but is neither Calvinst nor non-Calvinist. It is more Buddhist, if you think about it.
Embrace the utter sovereignty of God! He isn’t your buddy. He doesn’t need your worship. You and I add nothing to him. He is the Lord, your God: a being of unimaginable power and knowledge with motives that are as alien to you as your motives are to an ant. If you saw him, you would die. The fact that he stops to choose an unknown percentage of people to know him, desire him, and be drawn to him is the greatest story in the universe.
The Pelagian Heresy, Arminianism, Weslyanism, etc are all just way to make people think that they have the power to “do something” to add to their salvation as a way to convince them to come to church and serve (that was Pelagius’ actual motive. His disciple turned it into a heresy). All non-Calvinist Christianity is literally a way of adding a cliffhanger to this week’s sermon to insure that you show up “next week, same bat-time, same bat-channel”.
>>His request not to eat the fruit of a given tree?
It was not a request. It was an order. That thinking is the beginning of the dismantling of the sovereignty of God.
Then they aren't Calvinists. If God is not sovereign in every event and eventuality in the universe he isn't God. And that isn't an exclusive position of Calvinism. That is a position of theists whether you're a Jew, Christian or Muslim.
Sproul said it best when he asserted "There are no maverick molecules in the universe".
Recently was reading Isaiah 10. The text there speaks of Assyria being the instrument of punishment on a rebellious and idolatrous Israel. Yet it is clear that Assyria is doing what it WANTS to do in attacking Yahweh's chosen people. God is not forcing Assyria to act wickedly...Assyria is doing what Assyrians do.
Likewise when God pronounced judgement on David in 2 Samuel 12 for his sin with Bathsheba--in the ensuing chapters we see the rebellion of his sons Amnon and especially Absalom. Yahweh is letting sin run its course, not violating the wills of either of these bad men.
And so all of us who are saved are done so by grace. In ourselves we are wicked. Only God's mercy can rescue us from our evil ways.
+1
If God absolutely predestines us to heaven or hell, then why bother with church, religion, the bible, anything.
There is nothing you can do about it.
Besides that, everything in the bible is a useless lie. The moral code given by God is useless. If God predestined you to hell, no amount of righteous living will save you.
If God predestined you to heaven, no amount of sin will condemn you.
Pure, true Calvinism is theologically bankrupt. And I don’t know why you would even argue that, because it won’t matter.
Comforting, that.
I’m not a Calvinist, but I did like Calvin and Hobbs, and I have often wondered about this.
If God is omniscient then he, by definition, knows everything. By extension that means he knows what we are all thinking and what decisions we will make in our lives. So whether he predetermines or not, he knows. If someone, i.e. God, knows what is going to happen with complete certainty isn’t that pretty close to our lives being predetermined?
God hated Esau, even before he was born.
The idea of predestination flies in the face of the scriptures, in context. It also flies in the face of a righteous, holy, merciful God. It smacks of arbitrariness.
God’s promises to salvation/forgiveness/new birth are given and stated without reservation or limitation and are rock-solid promises that a Holy and Righteous God must and does answer.
Yes. It was a command and Adam and Eve and the rest of mankind suffered the consequences for that decision to eat the fruit.
The point was that God allows us to make the decision whether to Love God and follow His commandments.
Why do some follow a man-made religion instead of being part of the Church founded by Jesus Christ?
God Wills that all come to Him.
He knows they all will not.
Jesus did not come to save people already destined to be saved.
Calvin is an idiot.
Gods “hatred” of Esau wasn’t an emotion as we know it.
It was in reference to Gods choosing one over the other.
Esau was the father of the Edomites
Jacob the father of Israel
He chose the nation of Israel, to fulfill his mission. Thus he loved Jacob
In contrast, Edom was not chosen.
And yet God still blessed Edom.
No. While God knows all things, He does not make our decisions. We make our own choices.
He allows us to make our own choices. We can chose to be members of the Church that Jesus founded, or follow a man made religion like Calvin. Jesus warned us about false teachers and He was the Truth that we should follow.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.