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To: Steve_Seattle

It is my belief that when the Church fathers decided to include the Revelations chapter in the Bible (and it apparently was a toss-up) it was a major mistake. I would ask with respect to divine revelation, what difference is there between the dreams of Mohammed and the Dreams of John?


10 posted on 04/09/2018 9:16:04 AM PDT by Bookshelf
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To: Bookshelf

Only the inspiration from the Holy Spirit, if that makes any difference to you.


12 posted on 04/09/2018 9:35:40 AM PDT by robel
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To: Bookshelf
what difference is there between the dreams of Mohammed and the Dreams of John?

The visions of John come from God. Those of mohammed come from somewhere else.

W/o John's visions, we would have very little idea of what Heaven is like; nor would we know what is coming to planet earth in what the old prophets called the time of Jacob's trouble, and what Jesus Himself called "Great Tribulation, such as the world has never seen, nor will ever see again."

Add to that, John was right, mohammed was wrong.

15 posted on 04/09/2018 10:05:55 AM PDT by Migraine ((A smartass who is right can be downright funny. A smartass who is wrong is just a smartass.))
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To: Bookshelf

“I would ask with respect to divine revelation, what difference is there between the dreams of Mohammed and the Dreams of John?”

First, Revelation is not about John’s dreams. It contains visions received directly from Christ.

Christ commanded John to write these things and send the message to the churches.

Christ Himself repeatedly commands us to listen.

Revelation 2:7
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

He pronounced a special blessing on those who read, hear, and keep the prophecies of the book of Revelation.

Revelation 1:3
Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.

Revelation closes the canon of scripture. This is how we know that the Bible has been completed:

Revelation 22:18-19
For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Revelation contains instructions, worship, and prophecies of future, end-times events.

And, like all other scriptures, it reveals the person of Christ, which the point of the Bible.

John 5:39
You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.

Luke 24:27
And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.

The Revelation is a revealing of Jesus Christ.

To compare this majestic book to the ravings of a madman is contemptible. How could that even enter your mind?


17 posted on 04/09/2018 11:47:12 AM PDT by unlearner (A war is coming.)
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To: Bookshelf; redleghunter; Springfield Reformer; kinsman redeemer; BlueDragon; metmom; boatbums; ...
It is my belief that when the Church fathers decided to include the Revelations chapter in the Bible (and it apparently was a toss-up) it was a major mistake. I would ask with respect to divine revelation, what difference is there between the dreams of Mohammed and the Dreams of John?

A major mistake?! That is absurd, as is the premise of a lack of difference between the dreams of Mohammed and the Dreams of John.

For the contrasts are multiple:

1. John vs. Muhammad. John is the apostle of love, mentioning it over 70 times in the gospel of John and 1 John and Revelation combined, in contrast to the Qur'an, where it is hardly mentioned if at all. 2. The Christ of John and Revelation, who is "the almighty," (Rv. 1:8) whom all creation will worship along with the Father. (Rv. 5:13-14) Who was dead; and, behold, is alive for evermore, (Revelation 1:18) who "wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;" (Revelation 5:9) who "loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood" (Revelation 1:5)

In stark contrast to the christ of the madman Muhammad, who reduced Christ to being a mere exalted perfect man, who did not die for our sins and rise, and who is not to be worshiped.

3. The mean of warfare John and Revelation: While Revelation 13:10) warns, "He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints," (Revelation 13:10) which is consistent with, J"My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence;". (John 18:36) The only warfare of the saints for the kingdom of God will be supernatural. (Revelation 19:14,15)

In stark contrast Muhammad the mad-man engaged in physical bloodly warfare and captivity as the head of a physical theocracy, and his postMedinic exhorts religious violence.

Need i go on?

37 posted on 04/09/2018 8:24:22 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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To: Bookshelf
with respect to divine revelation, what difference is there between the dreams of Mohammed and the Dreams of John?

Uh, the content?

60 posted on 04/10/2018 6:45:27 AM PDT by Albion Wilde (We're even doing the right thing for them. They just don't know it yet. --Donald Trump, CPAC '18)
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To: Bookshelf; daniel1212
"It is my belief that...

What you believe is irrelavant. It is what has been handed down to us that is important knowing that the divine providence of God steers the course. Otherwise you come to your conclusion that there isn't anything different between the Bible and the Koran.

And, if you don't believe in divine revelation, then what exactly are you doing in church? Every believer is an example of divine revelation.

67 posted on 04/10/2018 8:30:54 AM PDT by HarleyD ("There are very few shades of grey."-Dr. Eckleburg)
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To: Bookshelf
I would ask with respect to divine revelation, what difference is there between the dreams of Mohammed and the Dreams of John?

Well John received visions and from Christ.

74 posted on 04/10/2018 2:55:09 PM PDT by redleghunter (Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation)
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