Unreformable Ireland? The Failure of the Reformation in Ireland

Marginalia ^ | Date uncertain | Henry A. Jefferies

[NRx]

What makes Ireland so interesting for Reformation studies is that it stands out as the classic exception to the general rule of ciuis regio, eius religio. Despite the endeavours of successive monarchs to extend the English Reformation to Ireland since 1534, by the end of the sixteenth century the number of Irish Protestants was reckoned by contemporaries at between 40 and 120 individuals. In Dublin, the capital of Ireland, only twenty Irish householders attended Protestant church services, and only four of those would receive communion by Protestant rites. By any criteria the failure of the Reformation in Ireland was comprehensive and absolute.

Because the failure of the Reformation in Ireland was so overwhelming it had long seemed inevitable, and historians had generally seen no need to try to explain it before Brendan Bradshaw’s exploratory essay, “Sword, Word and Strategy in the Reformation in Ireland,” was published in 1978. However, that article prompted Nicholas Canny’s rejoinder of the following year: “Why the Reformation Failed in Ireland: une question mal posée?” Not only did Canny declare the question as misconceived, he presented a new paradigm for Irish Reformation studies. He claimed that until the 1590s the Reformation in Ireland was characterized by a “quiescent phase” during which the Irish were not bothered about the theological debates that concerned Christians elsewhere in Europe. He asserted that throughout that period they were as liable to be absorbed into the Protestant Church of Ireland as to be lost forever to the Counter Reformation. He argued that the Reformation was rejected at the fin de siècle, not for any religious reasons but because it came to be seen as merely another facet of an English government program for Ireland that was characterized by despotism, militarism, and Anglicization. Tellingly, though, it was not made clear how political alienation from English governance could suddenly have inspired a general commitment to Counter-Reformation Catholicism after more than six decades of supposed religious indifference.

[Read the rest at the linked source.]

[NRx]

This is a good read, though neither light nor short.

[Slyfox]

From the article:

As Richard Rex has outlined on this forum, over the past half-century English Reformation scholars have demonstrated the strength of Catholic convictions among the English people before Henry VIII’s breach with Rome, and their consequent opposition to the crown’s efforts to promote religious changes. Recent work on Ireland tallies in many ways with the latest work on England.

Yes, good research over the last 20-30 years has shown that the Reformation was forced on the people through bribes, intimidation, fines and jail time in all of England and Ireland. There was a time when there were more people in jail for not attending the protestant service than there were bonafide criminals in England.

Henry VIII and his daughter Elizabeth were the first of the modern day tyrants.

[marron]

Of course, it was not enough to be protestant, you had to be the right kind of protestant. We remember that the Pilgrims were forced out of England by government repression, because they weren’t Church of England.

In studying genealogy I ran across something, religious repression of protestants in what is now Northern Ireland by the king’s agents, in the early 1700s. My memory is that they were Presbyterians... whatever, they weren’t CofE and were being assaulted, extorted, property seized, and so on. Finally one of the pastors organized an exodus, hiring several ships that took them to Carolina.

Its an interesting story (to me at least...) they thought they would be given land when they arrived, but that program had ended and they were stranded on the boats, not allowed to disembark until money was raised to pay the captains. Then, the legislature finally agreed to give them lands, but not together, they were scattered all over Carolina. The pastor himself was forced to become a traveling preacher... He lived to a ripe old age, but died when he fell drunk off his horse.

:)

[Albion Wilde]

bump

[Tilted Irish Kilt]

(from the article):" it was not made clear how political alienation from English governance could suddenly have inspired a general commitment
to Counter-Reformation Catholicism after more than six decades of supposed religious indifference. "

I think that political, economic, and religious persecution and repression had much to do with it.
Much of the religious institutional resistance came from the Free Irish AOH (Ancient Order of Hibernians) who hid Catholic priests from slaughter.

[who_would_fardels_bear]

The Chronicles of the Catholic Church in Lithuania is a testament to how Catholics were able to survive even under the more repressive Soviet tyranny.

Sometimes oppression has the opposite effect.

[heartwood]

How did Catholicism fade away and die in a few decades?

[Clutch Martin]

“How did Catholicism fade away and die in a few decades?”

Broadcast radio had a lot to do with it. Or at least began it hastened the pace of decline. Other technologies would help greatly to sound the death knell.

Millions have been affected by multimedia. I’m convinced of it.

[boatbums]

Yes, good research over the last 20-30 years has shown that the Reformation was forced on the people through bribes, intimidation, fines and jail time in all of England and Ireland. There was a time when there were more people in jail for not attending the protestant service than there were bonafide criminals in England. Henry VIII and his daughter Elizabeth were the first of the modern day tyrants.

Let's not forget Henry's daughter Mary (Bloody Mary), who would fall under the same definitions of a "tyrant" as her father before her and sister after her. Forcing anyone to practice a religion under threat of the sword was NEVER the way Jesus taught.

[kearnyirish2]

Catholicism dwindled when persecution ended and an attempt was made by the hierarchy to allow Catholics to assimilate in good conscience in godless cultures; the Church is strongest today in parts of the world where Christianity is under siege from communism (Red China) or Islam (Africa/Middle East).

[dfwgator]

I think the only Catholics left in Ireland are the Polish immigrants.

[kearnyirish2]

Wouldn’t be surprised; the Irish themselves seem determined to prove they’re progressive now - Americans with accents.

[Albion Wilde]

How did Catholicism fade away and die in a few decades?

1) Exposure of priest sexual abuse and other abuses of power against innocents has fueled anti-Catholicism since the late 90s.Today's internet-fueled fascist opinion demands that any abuse of any number of persons is too much, and the entire institution must be destroyed because of a relatively small number of incidences.

2) Globalist financiers have also been active to undermine any and all demographic concentrations of Christianity, conservatism or traditional family, seeing them as stumbling blocks to the establishment of a unified secular rule in which a OneWorld government is the highest form of authority and the source of poitically correct "morality." Soros money and the EU have been behind the campaigns in Ireland for legal abortion, gay marriage and muslim immigration.