Christ Is Superior to Angels

Grace To You.org ^ | 1993 | John MacArthur, Grace Community Church

[Elsie]

Catholics never have worshiped Mary as a goddess, but we do recognize that her soul, like every other soul ever made, is very much alive.

Maybe so; but the Book your chosen religion assembled; so long ago; states that 'the DEAD in Christ' will rise.

It also states that they will be SLEEPING until this event occurs.

An organization that MODIFYS what the Book plainly states is taking on a mighty big responsibility for the things it teaches.

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Psalm 90:5
Yet you sweep people away in the sleep of death— they are like the new grass of the morning:

 

Daniel 12:2
Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
 
 
John 11:12-13
His disciples replied, “Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better.”
Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep.

 

1 Corinthians 15:51-52
Listen, I tell you a mystery:

We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet.

For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

 

Ephesians 5:14
This is why it is said: “Wake up, sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you.”

 

1 Thessalonians 4:13
Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope.
 

[Elsie]

"... See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book..."

[BuddhaBrown]

You see now why I've said multiple times that I don't like to play scripture poker against other believers instead of doing so with potential believers. It often results in brethren getting upset and insulting each other, regardless who is right about the non-saving aspects of the bible's many writers/books/interpretations.

First off, you did not correctly understand what I said. Giants were the RESULT of a mix between sons of God and daughters of men.

Plus...you are quoting, apparently, from the NIV (New International Version) interpretation of the bible, which says in Gen 6:4:

"The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown."

While I'm using the KJV (King James) version, which says:

" There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."

Regardless... Nephilim ARE the giants. And even the much, much later NIV suggests they were the RESULT of sons of God (angel state) mixing with the daughters of men (flesh state)

Also, if you acknowledge that the Nephilim (giants) were actually here on earth, then where did they come from and why do you mock me for saying aliens (non-human) have been here on earth? I'm saying the fathers (sons of God) were alien - in the sense they weren't born here. You don't believe that, which is fine, but where do you say they came from?

And where the heck do you suppose, for example, the cherubims came from that Ezekiel describes? And where did they go? Are they some weird product of evolution that is now extinct?

And I have no clue why you re-quoted the part of revelation where the angel / messenger chides John for bowing to him because they are basically equals. Unless you are conceding the point on angels being, often, just the spirit version of us used as messengers.

Anyway, unless you have something significant to add, I'm willing to give it up now. I'm quite comfortable knowing you don't believe exactly what I believe regarding the non-salvation aspects of the bible's wildly various teachings.

[Elsie]

"The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown."

 " There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."

 

KJV  NIV  both say the same thing.

[Elsie]

Giants were the RESULT of a mix between sons of God and daughters of men.

Sorry; but neither the KJV or the NIV say that.

They both say WHEN such and such occurred.

[Elsie]

You don't believe that, which is fine, but where do you say they came from?

And where the heck do you suppose, for example, the cherubims came from that Ezekiel describes?

 

It's not for me to be muddying the water by SPECULATING about things unwritten.

Filling in the blanks is what gives rise to cultish teachings.

[Elsie]

...why do you mock me for saying aliens (non-human) have been here on earth?

I'm sorry you misunderstood me; thinking that I was mocking you.

I was pointing out the FACT that H2 has created quite a bit of fantasy that apparently a lot of folks believe in.

[Elsie]

And I have no clue why you re-quoted the part of revelation where the angel / messenger chides John for bowing to him because they are basically equals.

No clue?

I highlighted the word this

.

It seems to me a lot of NON-biblical info is being used trying to justify certain nonessential(?) beliefs.

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Further more; I do not see in the text were the angel makes a claim to be EQUAL with John.

He(it?) merely said, "... I am thy fellowservant..."

[BuddhaBrown]

Good grief, I really think we have more than just theological differences.

1) I'm flabbergasted that you can read Gen 6:4 and not understand the extremely clear cause and effect. It's not a matter of believing this or that about the nature or role of giants/nephilim. Just of understanding the coherence of one single sentence (not two entirely different subjects) to easily note that whatever you think they were, their existence came about due to the hookup between sons of God (also, regardless who/what you think these are) and daughters of men. The word when in this case is absolutely NOT confusingly casual as you imply. It is causal.

2) I have no idea what 'H2' is beyond a vehicle Arnold Schwarzenegger used to drive. You seem to be implying that the book of Ezekiel is the stuff of 'cultish' 'fantasy'. I only mentioned the cherubims (a special type of angel) as an example of creations of God clearly (very clearly) not of earth, but at least once on the earth. In other words, alien to earth, at least in this age.

3) I'm still clueless on what your highlight of the single word 'this' has to do with anything. Also, you re-quote the part where the angel (messenger) tells John that he is 'thy fellowservant', but you conveniently leave out the 'and of thy brethren the prophets' part. Which, again, very clearly indicates the messenger (translated 'angel') is NOT some type of creation which is entirely separate from us/John.

I'd almost like to assert that you are trolling me, but I resisting using that word as a verb - unless I'm fishing.

Again, this is why I hate scripture poker between fellow believers in Christ. You're probably a decent person, but your illogical methods of digesting text boggles my mind.

I fold.

Take the pot (and your unnecessarily confusing multiple replies per my single postings) and go celebrate.

[Elsie]

2) I have no idea what 'H2' is beyond a vehicle Arnold Schwarzenegger used to drive.

Let me elucidate...

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<snip>

 

 

 

H2 (A&E Networks)

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  (Redirected from H2 (TV network))

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For the American television channel formerly known as H2, see Viceland (United States). For the Canadian television channel, see H2 (Canada).

H2 is a brand name owned by A&E Networks (a joint venture between the Hearst Corporation, and the Disney–ABC Television Group division of The Walt Disney Company), used for a sister television channel of History. The brand was debuted in September 2011 when History International in the United States was relaunched as H2. The brand was expanded outside the U.S. since then. H2 in the United States was relaunched on February 29, 2016 as Viceland, but the H2 brand is still used for sister channels to History in other markets.^[1]

 

</snip>

 

 

[Elsie]

Take the pot (and your unnecessarily confusing multiple replies per my single postings) and go celebrate.

There is no pot to take.

Other than being able to take your multiple assertions found in one posting and break them out separately to try to show any logic in them.

[Elsie]

Take the pot (and your unnecessarily confusing multiple replies per my single postings) and go celebrate.

There is no celebrating when one decides that his explanations are not gaining any acceptance.

I'll have to study my manner of posting replies to see if I can make myself more plainly understood.

[Elsie]

I'd almost like to assert that you are trolling me, but I resisting using that word as a verb - unless I'm fishing.

Trolling?

When I am merely using Scripture; and how it reads; to answer things that you've typed here??

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But I guess if I no longer get any nibbles; I'll have to try a different bait.

[ealgeone]

At enmity with satan

Genesis 3:15: I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel."

As the Catholic Encyclopedia Online notes, "the translation "she" of the Vulgate is interpretative; it originated after the fourth century, and cannot be defended critically. "http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=6056

Mary sanctifies the greatest man (John the Baptist) while he is still in the womb

Luke 1:15:for he will be great before the Lord, and he shall drink no wine nor strong drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother's womb.

Luke 1:41:And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit

There is nothing in these two verses indicating Mary "sanctified" John in any way.

Mary is the Mother of God Luke 1:43:And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Uh....Luke wrote the mother of my Lord.

Mary's role in intercession with Jesus

John 2:3-5:When the wine failed, the mother of Jesus said to him, "They have no wine." And Jesus said to her, "O woman, what have you to do with me? My hour has not yet come." His mother said to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you.

A one time event that is to highlight the beginning of His ministry. There is nothing in this text that indicates we are to go to Mary to get things done.

The text doesn't indicate if the guests came to her or if she did this on her own.

Mary is our Mother

John 19:26-27: When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, "Woman, behold, your son!" Then he said to the disciple, "Behold, your mother!" And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home.

The Greek of this statement indicates this was a private matter between Jesus, John and Mary. There is nothing in the text indicating Mary was given to the church.

Revelation 12:17:Then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea.

If the Roman Catholic wants to appeal to this as support for Mary then they have to concede she was a sinner as Rev 12:1 notes, 2and she was with child; and she cried out, being in labor and in pain to give birth. Genesis 3:16 16To the woman He said, “I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you will bring forth children; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you.”