Posted on 06/17/2017 7:00:29 AM PDT by piusv
"And neither of us attempted to convert the other" - Francis
No, he heads the false faith of secularism. He is truly a diabolical fake Pope.
Are you certain of that? I think he has spent more time with Marx, Lenin, Chomsky and Alinsky, than on the Torah.
Both ecumenism and secularism are false. But I agree with you, Francis is a pseudo-pope.
Nothing could be further from Catholic Truth:
Certainly such attempts can nowise be approved by Catholics, founded as they are on that false opinion which considers all religions to be more or less good and praiseworthy, since they all in different ways manifest and signify that sense which is inborn in us all, and by which we are led to God and to the obedient acknowledgment of His rule. Not only are those who hold this opinion in error and deceived, but also in distorting the idea of true religion they reject it, and little by little, turn aside to naturalism and atheism, as it is called; from which it clearly follows that one who supports those who hold these theories and attempt to realize them, is altogether abandoning the divinely revealed religion. - Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos, 1928
What is this supposed to mean? JPII was also an ecumenist.
#6
I may not have a clear understanding of ecumenism, I thought it was an attempt to seek common ground as a way to keep the peace; s show of goodwill comparable to public relations campaigns in the secular world...
Am I wrong?
Is there a strictly ecclesial interpretation of ecumenism that I am unaware of?
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ecumenical
A similar object is aimed at by some, in those matters which concern the New Law promulgated by Christ our Lord. For since they hold it for certain that men destitute of all religious sense are very rarely to be found, they seem to have founded on that belief a hope that the nations, although they differ among themselves in certain religious matters, will without much difficulty come to agree as brethren in professing certain doctrines, which form as it were a common basis of the spiritual life. For which reason conventions, meetings and addresses are frequently arranged by these persons, at which a large number of listeners are present, and at which all without distinction are invited to join in the discussion, both infidels of every kind, and Christians, even those who have unhappily fallen away from Christ or who with obstinacy and pertinacity deny His divine nature and mission. Certainly such attempts can nowise be approved by Catholics, founded as they are on that false opinion which considers all religions to be more or less good and praiseworthy, since they all in different ways manifest and signify that sense which is inborn in us all, and by which we are led to God and to the obedient acknowledgment of His rule. Not only are those who hold this opinion in error and deceived, but also in distorting the idea of true religion they reject it, and little by little. turn aside to naturalism and atheism, as it is called; from which it clearly follows that one who supports those who hold these theories and attempt to realize them, is altogether abandoning the divinely revealed religion.
Pope Pius XI condemns what you and Vatican II propose. Please, please, learn what the Catholic Faith teaches!
Hi! I suppose what I meant to say is that it’s quite possible to atone, build and find peace within the Church, her old and new testaments, and achieve mutual respect with, as saint JP2 put it, the Church’s Jewish elder brothers in faith (and the family of Christ). Without necessarily buying into the wholesale ecumenical agenda with non- related or openly, actively hostile/ antagonistic other groups ( like Islam, which I will bury the church and the West as a whole soon, if not defeated). Blessings, fhc. As antagonistic as even Paul was at times,he fought against anti-semitism in his seminal epistle ( where he explained his theology at his most careful level), romans 9-11 inclusive esp. 11.29). The Church’s anti/l-semitism problem dates back to several other NT verses but neither Jesus nor Paul would approve of that inglorious or hateful past.
Do you believe that wishing to convert Jews is wrong or “anti-semitic”?
yes. but that’s of little import. just ‘wishing’ to convert somebody is not the issue I had in mind. the issue is mass-murder, horrible tortures, baseless, widespread discrimination, bias, and bigotry.......violence galore...which broke out many times in the name of the Church...often against innocent Jewish people, sometimes others too...and which record of blood=-letting hurts the soul of the Church at LEAST as much as it hurts its visible victims, Genesis 12:3. It has been a horrible, terrible stain on the Church, and imho its belied, rendered worthless or at least highly hypocritical the good things/salvatory message that the Church seeks to stand for....
Of course there have been thousands or even millions of good honest decent and even loving Catholics! Im only addressing the outbreaks of hatred and bigotry from within the Church against other human beings, and especially the violence directed against Jesus’ own people.
Theologically, there is considerable disagreement between the Church and the Church’s “elder brothers in faith.”
We all understand that. The issue is for the Church to recover from its anti-Semitism FOR ITS OWN SAKE, and to respect the Jewish people as Jewish people, not just as ‘potential converts’ ...
Jesus didn’t go around Israel and Judea murdering innocent Jews. He preached, many followed him, some said no thanks, and most never heard him to begin with.
But Jesus taught love, not hate, forgiveness (Father, forgive them for they know not what they do...)not emnity. That’s the point I was trying to make, nothing more. Blessings, fhc
So, according to you, converting Jews is wrong and that the Church should not do this. That is not in line with the Catholic Faith. But I am not surprised that you think this way.....you have fallen into the post Vatican II trap. It is not Catholic.
Catholics should not hate them, but it is not loving or charitable for Catholics to not try to convert them.
If they want information they’ll ask for it. Give it to them then.
What you and Francis teach is not what the Catholic Church teaches.
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