Posted on 05/12/2017 7:10:58 AM PDT by Salvation
Monsignor Pope Ping!
The reasons Arch-Pope is so often wrong on these posts:
His use of flawed logic, his tendency to substitute RC identity talking points, as a substitute for the rejection of Scripture.
Interesting.
When has Monsignor Pope rejected scripture? Proof with a live link, please.
I've pointed this out on a great many of your Arch-Pope threads for a year.
He's generally very thin on Scripture and when he uses it, he is almost always misusing it.
Please check your "in forum" link on your account page.
Thanks for asking.
Seems to me whenever we bring up something no one wants to answer it’s a “talking point”. Why can we find not one single Protestant in the first 1500 years of the Church? Talking point! How can we reject Scripture, when we established the canon of Scripture in the first place? Talking point!
You can’t find Protestants and certainly not Roman Catholicism in the NT. You will find Christianity however.
I have to say that my lovely wife likes it when I agree with her. If, on the other hand, I happen to express an alternate opinion, she does tend to think that I am attacking her and she gets very upset. Twenty-Five years of marriage and I have struggled to find a diplomatic way to hold an opinion different from my wife. I have failed. But my "personal attacks" have dwindled to almost nothing because I learned "Yes dear".
To me it's a mild annoyance within a marriage. But in the world, you simply cannot have social interaction where every disagreement is seen as a personal attack. I see this all the time.
Because no one used the term Protestant before. But that doesn't mean that there were not any dissenters from the Church of Rome, otherwise why did Rome cause a schism in the Church in 1054?
How can we reject Scripture, when we established the canon of Scripture in the first place?
You have conflated the first "we" (the current RCC) with the second "we" (ancient church consuls). This is similar to saying that the US Supreme Court cannot reject the US Constitution because they are the arbiters of what the Constitution means.
Perhaps your fellow Catholics should focus on this. I bet the Msgr would be disappointed at the lack of desire of Catholics to engage in the debate.
Christianity is not defined by the categories you are using in that question. For this reason, the correct question is, "Has God always had individual believers in every age? The answer to that question is resoundingly yes.How can we reject Scripture, when we established the canon of Scripture in the first place? Talking point!
“Lord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars. I am the only one left, and they are seeking my life as well”? 4And what was the divine reply to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5In the same way, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace.… (Romans 11:3-5)
"We" is the wrong category. God inspired, recorded, and preserved His Words - beginning thousands of years before the Savior trod this globe. God chooses to use people to accomplish His Work.
In this specific thread, I am referring only to Arch-Pope.
Best.
councils, not consuls. Sorry for the error.
I’m not talking about the name “Protestant”, obviously that didn’t exist.
I’m talking about Protestant theology. Find me one Church Father who held the same theology as the Reformers. Sola Scriptura, Faith Alone, disbelief in the Real Presence, rejection of sacred hierarchy, rejection of the sacrificial priesthood, rejection of monastic life, rejection of the cult of saints and their feast days.
And I don’t want to see “Well Augustine said X”. No. Not enough. I want you to show me a single person who held ALL OF IT. The whole kit and caboodle of modern Protestantism. Because I’ve seen people quote Augustine up and down on grace and conveniently forget that he was a bishop who offered the Mass, honored the saints, kept their feast days, wrote rules for monastics, ordained priests, etc.
The Christianity of the earliest time period was, in fact, substantially the same as what we now call today the Catholic, Orthodox, and Oriental Churches. No one ever held Protestant theology until much, much later.
Paul
Specifically Romans.
“But in the world, you simply cannot have social interaction where every disagreement is seen as a personal attack. I see this all the time.”
I see this as stemming from a lack of intelligence.
Stupid people get things wrong more than others, then when they discuss an issue with smart people they are made to look and feel stupid. This hurts and angers them. Since they have been hurt by the other person, he must be attacking them.
What does an intelligent person do? Ben Franklin tells us: “...for having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged by better information or fuller consideration to change opinions even on important subjects which I once thought right but found to be otherwise...”
This does not mean that we are obliged to listen patiently to the ten-millionth recitation of every fallacious argument the left puts out; it only means that we must consider new or previously unknown information and arguments—of which the left has none.
But were those dissenters identifiably Protestant in their theology? What did they dissent about, and just as importantly, what did they NOT dissent about?
Were the Orthodox Protestant? Were the non-Chalcedonians? Were the Montanists, the Arians, the Gnostics, the Manicheans, the Novatianists, the Nestorians?
Find me one dissident group that believed what modern Protestants believe. I will give you the whole range of Protestantism to choose from.
I agree with Msgr. Pope. It can very difficult to hold a discussion. Even when a topic seems neutral, one finds people getting upset because some switch has been tripped.
I completely reject that. Paul was as Catholic as anyone else. But if we start that debate up, we are arguing Biblical exegesis and not Patristics.
Lets mark Paul “disputed” for now.
Anyone else outside the NT?
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