Posted on 12/15/2016 5:37:56 PM PST by grumpa
“Have the general resurrection and great judgment happened?”
They obviously haven’t happened, since, as I said, us living Christians are all still here, walking around in our same old bodies, and we are not reigning over anything. So if we were to try and interpret it your way, it would make God a liar.
That’s the consequence of a method like preterism, where you determine what you want to believe first, and then try to interpret the text in light of that goal. It just leads to absurdities and contradictions.
2 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
Matthew 11
13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.
15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Matthew 17
10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.
John 1
19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?
20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.
21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.
22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?
23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.
Elijah, taken up to heaven alive in a whirlwind.
Elijah, appearing at the Transfiguration.
Elijah who was John, was born many centruries after Elijah who was taken up into heaven.
John said he wasn't Elijah.
Jesus said that John was Elijah.
There'a a pattern here.
The son of man... what's in a name, or how someone is addressed? "Son of man" is an idiom to denote any human being ("ben Adam", son of Adam). Kind of like Ploni Almoni, John Doe, Max Mustermann, lit. meaning the max paragon ("example"). It's even paradoxical to use a definite article in front of a generic catch all. Like saying "the" John Doe, or "the" Anytown, USA. Well if it were a specific person or place, it wouldn't be "John Doe", or "Anytown". Heh.
Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them
Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus...
John was Elijah. Same guy; different name. Elijah named as Elijah, appeared at the Transfiguration along with Moses, to discuss Jesus' exodus from Jerusalem. Yet he also came back as a new baby, whose birth narrative is documented. That is to say, when Elijah returned as the man named John, he returned from the ground... up.
Gotta be a reason for that sort of weirdness.
Fascinating, the details that just sit around waiting to be observed by noone in particular.
Hebrew tochnit (תוכנית) - fem. n. plan, program, project
What Solomon said:
1 Kings 8
17 And it was in the heart of David my father to build an house for the name of the LORD God of Israel.
18 And the LORD said unto David my father, Whereas it was in thine heart to build an house unto my name, thou didst well that it was in thine heart.
19 Nevertheless thou shalt not build the house; but thy son that shall come forth out of thy loins, he shall build the house unto my name.
Preterism is replacement theology,
Which itself at its heart is really just full-on antisemitism,
These are the ones the Book of Revelation describes as ‘saying they are Jews’ but are not,
Boogieman, I believe you have an idea about resurrection that is based more on assumption than exegesis. It was to be a rising out of hades to heaven by the faithful, an event that was not visible. As I pointed out in a comment above, the passages about resurrection and judgment are consistently portrayed in Scripture as imminent to the biblical writers.
“I believe you have an idea about resurrection that is based more on assumption than exegesis. It was to be a rising out of hades to heaven by the faithful, an event that was not visible.”
I’m sorry, but just 3 verses from Matthew 24 eliminate that possibility, as they state that a) the first resurrection happens after the tribulation b) it accompanies Christ’s second coming and c) all the tribes of the earth witness it:
“29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.” Matthew 24:29:31
This parallels Christ’s return in Revelation 19 immediately followed by the first resurrection in the beginning of Revelation 20. It also parallels the narrative of 1 Corinthians 15, which tells us that:
“22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.” 1 Corinthians 15:22-24
So again, the Bible states that the resurrection of believers coincides with Christ’s second coming, and it further tells us this precedes “the end” when Christ delivers his kingdom to God, after he has removed power from our earthly kingdoms, just as described in Revelation.
I could cite many more verses that confirm these events, but preterism is so ludicrous it really doesn’t deserves a detailed rebuttal. The apostles who wrote the New Testament were for the most part alive in 70 AD, and yet not a single one of them ever mentions that the second coming or resurrections are fulfilled, past events. That alone is enough to tell any reasonable person that this interpretation is simply an impossibility.
Indeed! Thanks for the Ping! It's something that deserves a thorough evaluation and cataloged as one of the many possibilities, though I still lean toward the heavens being rolled back theory... :)
Formula, pattern:
Elijah who was at the Transfiguration.
Elijah who was John.
Same guy, really. No need to pick one over the other. Kind of like y = mx + b. Or two witnesses.
"A line is uniquely determined by two points"
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Line.html
Math is fun. :)
This is my take on upcoming events:
The guaranteed *Jewish* observance of Sukkot.
15 Tishrei 5778.
Not a false “prophesy” ripped off from another religion’s texts and dates, that fail *every time*.
And so is Physics... ;)
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