Posted on 12/08/2015 10:36:06 AM PST by ebb tide
There is a great deal of confusion over the issue of papal infallibility, which prevents the pope from erring when defining doctrines for the universal Church. Many erroneously believe that the charism would prevent a person raised to the Pontificate from erring when speaking on matters of faith and morals. In reality, the charism of infallibility only prevents the pope from erring in limited circumstances.
(Excerpt) Read more at remnantnewspaper.com ...
I'm sure that's right there in the bible.
How did the RCC deal with anti-popes?
Not saying this pope is one. This pope was quoted out of context and misquoted so many times, that I quit paying attention.
I see headlines and wonder if he really said that or if it’s another blatant lie.
Here’s my question. It would seem like removing or restricting a divine right King. If God placed this person there, how are you supposed to oppose him? As Thomas Paine put it, that’s essentially opposing God himself.
And if others are qualified to decide he is heretical, that’s kinda like priesthood of the believer.
Anyway, Jesus gave us no hierarchical structure or model. And he instructed nobody else to do it either. That’s my take on it.
Thomas Paine:
“I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of.”
Try again.
Unfortunately there is no impeachment mechanism that I am aware of to remove a sitting pope.
Let us hope and pray that the current pontiff will follow in his predecessor’s footsteps and retire early.
You’re both injecting an aspect into this that we don’t claim is there. God didn’t necessarily put each individual Pope there...that is not part of the dogma. We’ve had bad ones and we will again. We just believe that God protects the Church through the good Popes, and in spite of the bad Popes.
When the dogma was officially formulated during Vatican I, the bishops had to seriously consider the historical case of an ecumenical council and Pope Agatho condemning Pope Honorius I for playing cute with the Monothelite heresy. That situation was the closest we’ve had to a “heretical pope”, and it took the next Pope at the head of an Ecumenical Council to straighten it out. I suspect that will be the mechanism to straighten out any such problems in the future.
In any case, God protecting the Church from error may well include, to my mind, annihilating a Pope with a lightning bolt if it be necessary. Catholics are (or should be) far less protective of individual Popes than the institution itself. Of course, I’m Italian so we never had to look far for bad people in the office. :)
Well they have deposed them before, but only so-called “antipopes” I think...
The problem with Francis is that there is no other serious claimant to the office. So you cannot simply say Francis is an “antipope” and depose him. If he was legitimately elected, then he is supposed to have the blessing of the Holy Spirit, and how could the Holy Spirit be wrong? Unless they can show his election wasn’t legitimate somehow, I think the only thing they can do is pressure him to resign.
I don’t know if you can remove a Pope or not, but if a pope begins allowing abortions or homosexual marriages, then that could and probably would create a schism, whereby many Catholics would no longer recognize the sitting pope’s authority, and possibly many cardinals would object to the sitting pope, and elect another one. This would create a bit of a mess, but it has happened before centuries ago.
My dad, a devout Catholic, told me that he believes Francis will be canonized a saint. What do you all think?
He is more likely to be deposed.
He has a .pdf entitled "Bellarmine against Saurez? Another Critical Error in the Sedevacantist Thesis, John Salza, J.D." that answers the question of when and how a Pope can be removed and what the issues are.
Does he have a food taster?
Or recall Pope John Paul I who died on 29 September 1978, 33 days into his papacy - he was found dead lying in his bed, with a book opened beside him, and the reading light on. According to a Vatican doctor, he probably died around 11 p.m. . . . of a heart attack.
You said, “Jesus gave us no hierarchical structure or model. And he instructed nobody else to do it either. That’s my take on it.”
Sorry but that premise is completely, demonstrably wrong. Jesus made Peter the first Pope, but more importantly and scripture confirms it, the hierarchical structure ie “apostolic” was instituted by Christ. Peter and the early Church confirmed it, it was well understood and affected, that is the Papacy is not about personality or dictatorship but as a service to the Church to preserve the message of truth via the College of Bishops and so the unity of the faithful centred together on one Truth. Pope Francis himself even confirmed that at the end of the first session of the Family Synod.
Jesus made Peter the first Pope. He made him the leader of the first century church, along with the other apostles. James (his brother) and Peter, and John, seem to be the opinion leaders (esp Peter and James) in Acts 15 some 15-18 years after the resurrection. The Roman Catholic church retrospectively claim a link for papal succession back to Peter, but that is pretty murky and speculative. Peter, James, and John would be utterly surprised by the positions and example of their papal "successors". Still, the gospel and Spirit lived on in his followers, often times in spite of papal and Holy Roman Catholic leadership.
In Bergoglio’s Angelus address today, he referred to Blessed Mother as “our sister”.
And like a Protestant, he never referred to Her as the Mother of God, but only as a “mother of a new humanity”.
Also from Bergoglio’s Angelus address today:
“...let us allow ourselves to be embraced by the mercy of God that waits for us and pardons everything. Nothing is sweeter than His mercy. Let’s let ourselves be caressed by God: He is so good, the Lord, and He pardons everything.”
If God “pardons everything”, why is there a Hell? Has God pardoned Satan?
John Salza has signed a petition requesting that Bergoglio resign.
http://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/2198-the-year-of-mercy-begins
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