Posted on 05/30/2015 9:50:50 AM PDT by ebb tide
Ireland has gone further than paganism and “defied God” by legalising gay marriage, one of the Church’s most senior cardinals has said.
Cardinal Raymond Burke, who was recently moved from a senior role in the Vatican to be patron of the Order of Malta, told the Newman Society, Oxford University’s Catholic Society, last night that he struggled to understand “any nation redefining marriage”.
Visibly moved, he went on: “I mean, this is a defiance of God. It’s just incredible. Pagans may have tolerated homosexual behaviours, they never dared to say this was marriage.”
A total of 1.2 million people voted in favour of amending the constitution to allow same-sex couples to marry, with 734,300 against the proposal, making Ireland the first country to introduce gay marriage by popular vote.
The Archbishop of Dublin, Diarmuid Martin, told RTE afterwards that “the Church needs a reality check right across the board [and to ask] have we drifted away completely from young people?”
Cardinal Burke, who speaking on the intellectual heritage of Pope Benedict XVI, went on to say “liturgical abuses” had taken place after the Second Vatican Council, after which he said there had been “a radical, even violent approach to liturgical reform”. Quoting Pope Benedict, he said that the desire among some of the faithful for the old form of the liturgy arose because the new missal was “actually understood as authorising, or even requiring, creativity, which frequently led to deformations of the liturgy which were hard to bear.”
On Tuesday Cardinal Burke presided over Mass at the Oxford Oratory, and on Wednesday he led Vespers and Benediction for the intentions of the Order of Malta.
Speaking at the lecture afterwards Cardinal Burke stressed the continuity between liturgical forms before and after the council. “The life of the Church is organic; it is a living tradition handed down in an unbroken line from the apostles,” he said. “It does not admit of discontinuity, of revolutions.”
Paraphrasing Pope Benedict, Cardinal Burke said that after the council, there had been a battle between a hermeneutic of discontinuity and rupture, and the hermeneutic of reform. This was because the nature and authority of the council had been “basically misunderstood.” Apparently departing from his script, the Cardinal voiced his own concern about similar misunderstandings around the upcoming Synod. “There seems to be a certain element who think that the Synod has the capacity to create some totally new teaching in the Church, which is simply false.” He went on to speak of the damage caused by “an antinomianism which is inherent in the hermeneutic of discontinuity.”
Though the talk consisted primarily in an overview of Pope Benedict XVI's chiefest intellectual contributions, Cardinal Burke adopted a more personal note in his answers to questions at the end. Responding to a question about the marginalisation of faith in the public sphere, he stressed the primary importance of fortifying the family in its understanding of how faith “illumines daily living”. ‘The culture is thoroughly corrupted, if I may say so, and the children are being exposed to this, especially through the internet.’
He told the audience that he was “constantly” telling his nieces and nephews to keep their family computers in public areas of the house so that their children would not “imbibe this poison that’s out there.”
Don’t sell the Holy Spirit short. Remember that if the Church was an institution created by men, it wouldn’t have made it past 70AD. The Holy Spirit’s got this, as He has had all along and will continue to the end of time.
I have no practical knowledge of Ireland. But from another thread I get the idea that the Irish people possibly applied Pope Francis’s unsciptural “Who am I to judge?” teaching regarding the same-sex marriage vote.
Insights from the Irish welcome.
I have about 50% Irish blood so I comment. If “Who am I to judge” was all Pope Francis said then maybe the Irish would justified in following his teaching. The full sentence, I believe, went something like this...A gay person who is seeking God, who is of good will- who am I to judge him? I think the “good will” part disqualifies the Irish Catholics. They certainly were not seeking God’s teaching of good will.
I have some familiarity with both
Simple The Irish are succumbing to common western culture. Regular reception of sacraments, keeps one aware of true morality. They lack that protection known as grace
Here’s the deal: Ireland was brought out of pagan silliness by St. Patrick who showed them the truth
They became Catholic.
Until recently, they practiced Catholicism. Now, they are like the Catholics in this country. They reject much of the teaching that doesn’t suit their desires
These people are not Catholic in the sense that they follow Catholic teaching
They are quite sure that the Church is a democratic organization, persuadable and, until it comes around, simply out to tell people ‘no’’.
They have been poorly led, poorly catechised
They have forgotten that life is eternal and that getting to heaven is a personal choice that the Church is there to provide guidance in doing
Living in the state of mortal sin, as common western society leads us, deadens the conscience. The sense of true morality in this case, goes away
Lapsed Catholics can say they are Catholic and present to others tge tenets of their religion
The truth of Catholicism is what is in the catechism and canon law derived from Biblical teaching (regardless of false prophets’ commentary)
Priests and clergy are people They are not necessarily holy but they are expected to be so. They are judged harshly and they have much temptation
Finally, the Church, represented well here as always by the good Cardinal Burke, states that homosexuals have a call to be celibate and as such are prayed for and recognized as sufferers where the homosexual lifestyle is wrong as is any fornication including birth control
.
God bless Cardinal Burke.
Oh, and contemporary progressives, to which many lapsed Catholics adhere, are happy to take the pope’s lead, even taken out of context, if it suits them, yet have no problem rejecting anything to do with the pope if they don’t like what they hear from him
“I have no practical knowledge of Ireland.”
Okiedokie.
“But from another thread I get the idea that the Irish people possibly applied Pope Francis’s unsciptural “Who am I to judge?” teaching regarding the same-sex marriage vote.”
No. Since Pope Francis never actually said that about homosexual sex or homosexual marriage it can’t be. What Pope Francis said that about was one specific thing where it was assumed a man was celibate and living a moral life. That in no way compares to “gay marriage”.
Thanks baldisbeautiful.
What I’m seeing is that Roman Catholics are not taking the personal responsibility to read the Holy Bible, leaving that job up to somebody else, the misguided Catholic clergy in this case. (The blind leading the blind.)
And this is the same basic problem why US citizens are having problems with unconstitutionally big federal government imo, citizens foolishly leaving the “burden” of reading and interpreting the Constitution up to activist judges and lawless lawmakers and presidents instead of reading the Constitution for themselves.
I am also of partly Irish descent, have studied the history, visited a couple times, and watch Irish cinema and TV when I get the chance. Besides disgust over the child abuse cover up scandals of recent years there is a lot of resentment and a backlash over how stifling and dominant the Catholic Church was in the Republic during the first seventy or eighty years after independence from Britain. It’s not the Ireland John Ford depicted with John Wayne and Maureen O’Hara starring anymore.
I copied it from someone else’s post yesterday and I’ll see if I can quote it.
Pope Francis: “After Confession and absolution, who am I to judge?”
Even the ancient Greeks, who’s pederasty was institutionalized - and at least in many cases would have translated to full bore homosexuality - never went so far as to bring it into their society in the marital sense, knowing, I believe, that it would have contributed to wreaking their whole society.
Not that it wasn’t a contributory factor anyway.
AMEN OC!!!!!!!!!!!
The Greeks, IIRC, also weren’t so keen on children raised by unwed parents, which has done a number on society and economically has pretty much crippled the U.S. and it’s prospects.
For a lot of Greeks though, it was more bisexuality than anything that was encouraged.
The Greeks also didn’t like whiners very much.
Who’s whining?
And still no condemnation from Francis.
Well said. Thanks
Sort of ... What people don’t know is that the bible is a catholic book and that at holy Mass, the bible is read, starting with a verse, then a reading from th Old Testament then a Psalm then the Gospel mom Sunday’s the mass also includes another New Testament reading. It’s a half hour of bible study per day then after a three year cycle anyone attending mass will have read from every book in the bible
But tats not the gist of nod the tenet of yte Church, I’m saying though I doubt your curiosity
The tenet of the Church is to regularly receive yh sacraments otherwise s catholic will lack a relationship with God and will make poor moral decisions affecting his life his community and his vocation
It’s a mistake to think fallen away Catholicsxare wrong because they are not practicing Protestantism
Fallen away Catholicsxare wrong very dimply because they are not practicing Catholicism
You asked. I’m telling you
Oy autocorrect out of control. Apologies
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