This Protestant Researched Marian Miracles, & What He Learned Blew His Mind

Churchpop ^ | April 4, 2015 | Albert Little -

[daniel1212]

I ask my living, Christian friends to pray for me) then why would God allow her to appear, in this way, to mislead Catholics. Because, ultimately, it would be misleading if she appeared like this and she wasn’t someone special. Would God allow that? Would God use that?

Why does God allow that and more, even any alternative to what is of Him? The answer to that query by that poor ignorant soul, is the same reason why God Eve to be tempted, and allowed magicians to duplicate the first 3 miracles of Moses, and for Simon to do things that fooled the simple into believing that "This man is the great power of God," (Acts 8:10) and for occult doctors to do many miracles, and for Islam to continue for centuries;

and will allow in the latter days "the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." (2 Thessalonians 2:9-10)

And will allow the devil when he is loosed at the end to "deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea." (Revelation 20:8)

The answer is that from the beginning to the end God allows competition, to prove the hearts of men, to see what they really wanted. This ignorant soul rejected Scripture which nowhere examples or teaches addressing anyone else but God in prayer to Heaven, besides the other aspects of Catholic Mariolatry , and relied on signs above what Scripture teaches and God gave him over to his delusion.

Allowing such deception is a judgment upon the people:

"I also will not henceforth drive out any from before them of the nations which Joshua left when he died:" "That through them I may prove Israel, whether they will keep the way of the Lord to walk therein, as their fathers did keep it, or not." (Judges 2:21-22)

"And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left." "And the Lord said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth–gilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner." "And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the Lord, and said, I will persuade him." "And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so." (1 Kings 22:19-22)

There was even "Sister Magdalena of the Cross -The devil's saint for 40 years" with her demonic heavenly visions: http://www.mysticsofthechurch.com/2011/12/sister-magdalena-of-cross-nun-who-made.html

But the Mary of Catholicism is NOT the humble holy Mary of Scripture, the former of whom is exalted (officially or with implicit sanction) as

• an almost almighty demigoddess to whom "Jesus owes His Precious Blood" to,

• whose [Mary] merits we are saved by,

• who "had to suffer, as He did, all the consequences of sin,"

• and was bodily assumed into Heaven, which is a fact (unsubstantiated in Scripture or even early Tradition) because the Roman church says it is, and "was elevated to a certain affinity with the Heavenly Father,"

• and whose power now "is all but unlimited,"

• for indeed she "seems to have the same power as God,"

• "surpassing in power all the angels and saints in Heaven,"

• so that "the Holy Spirit acts only by the Most Blessed Virgin, his Spouse."

• and that “sometimes salvation is quicker if we remember Mary's name then if we invoked the name of the Lord Jesus,"

• for indeed saints have "but one advocate," and that is Mary, who "alone art truly loving and solicitous for our salvation,"

• Moreover, "there is no grace which Mary cannot dispose of as her own, which is not given to her for this purpose,"

• and who has "authority over the angels and the blessed in heaven,"

• including "assigning to saints the thrones made vacant by the apostate angels,"

• whom the good angels "unceasingly call out to," greeting her "countless times each day with 'Hail, Mary,' while prostrating themselves before her, begging her as a favour to honour them with one of her requests,"

• and who (obviously) cannot "be honored to excess,"

•

[Veto!]

Episcopalian friend of mine went to the Guadalupe shrine in Mexico and returned a Catholic. He brought me a rosary blessed by the priest in the chapel there. Still waiting for a miracle, perhaps it would help if I took the beads out of the box and actually used them.

Happy Easter:)

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

As a Protestant, especially a Pentecostal...

A Pentecostal huh? From one error they go deeper into others. Oneness Pentecostals (not to be confused with regular ones, though the regular ones are deceived too!) also base their "confirmation" of their religion on miracles, even boasting of "medical reports" showing the disappearance of cancers and the like. Yet they deny the Trinity and are outright Pelagians.

When it comes to believing a miracle over the Word of God, the Word of God must win:

Deu 13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, Deu 13:2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; Deu 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

[daniel1212]

Protestants get a bad rap here, though I honestly don’t think it’s deserved. I’ve never met one who had a beef with Mary, nor held her in low regard. The issue for Protestants is paying her IMPROPER regard, going beyond the written word concerning her.

"And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another." (1 Corinthians 4:6)

One would have a hard time in Bible times explaining kneeling before a statue and praising the entity it represented in the unseen world, even with adulation, attributes, glory and titles never given in Scripture to created beings (except to false gods), including having the uniquely Divine power glory to hear and respond to virtually infinite numbers of prayers addressed to them, and beseeching such for Heavenly help, and making offerings to them. Which would constitute worship in Scripture, yet Catholics imagine by playing word games they avoid crossing the invisible line between mere "veneration" and worship.

Instead they should do what Mary and every believer in every prayer to Heaven did (and I should do more of), which was to pray directly to the Lord, not secretaries. But they must truly become born again for that.

Moses, put down those rocks! I was only engaging in hyper dulia, not adoring her. Can't you tell the difference?

Instead Caths basically say,

As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee. But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes... (Jeremiah 44:16-17)

[Gluteus Maximus]

Martin Luther on the Virgin Mary.

There can be no doubt that the Virgin Mary is in heaven. How it happened we do not know. And since the Holy Spirit has told us nothing about it, we can make of it no article of faith . . . It is enough to know that she lives in Christ. (Sermon of August 15, 1522, the last time Martin Luther preached on the Feast of the Assumption)

The veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart. (Sermon, September 1, 1522)

[She is the] highest woman and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ . . . She is nobility, wisdom, and holiness personified. We can never honor her enough. Still honor and praise must be given to her in such a way as to injure neither Christ nor the Scriptures. (Sermon, Christmas, 1531)

No woman is like you. You are more than Eve or Sarah, blessed above all nobility, wisdom, and sanctity. (Sermon, Feast of the Visitation, 1537)

One should honor Mary as she herself wished and as she expressed it in the Magnificat. She praised God for his deeds. How then can we praise her? The true honor of Mary is the honor of God, the praise of God's grace . . . Mary is nothing for the sake of herself, but for the sake of Christ . . . Mary does not wish that we come to her, but through her to God. (Explanation of the Magnificat, 1521)

Luther gives the Blessed Virgin the exalted position of "Spiritual Mother" for Christians:

It is the consolation and the superabundant goodness of God, that man is able to exult in such a treasure. Mary is his true Mother .. (Sermon, Christmas, 1522)

Mary is the Mother of Jesus and the Mother of all of us even though it was Christ alone who reposed on her knees . . . If he is ours, we ought to be in his situation; there where he is, we ought also to be and all that he has ought to be ours, and his mother is also our mother. (Sermon, Christmas, 1529)

It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary's soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God's gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin" (Sermon: "On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God," 1527)

She is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin- something exceedingly great. For God's grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil. (Personal {"Little"} Prayer Book, 1522)

Martin Luther on Mary's Perpetual Virginity

Christ, our Savior, was the real and natural fruit of Mary's virginal womb . . . This was without the cooperation of a man, and she remained a virgin after that. {Luther's Works, eds. Jaroslav Pelikan (vols. 1-30) & Helmut T. Lehmann (vols. 31-55), St. Louis: Concordia Pub. House (vols. 1-30); Philadelphia: Fortress Press (vols. 31-55), 1955, v.22:23 / Sermons on John, chaps. 1-4 (1539)} Christ . . . was the only Son of Mary, and the Virgin Mary bore no children besides Him . . . I am inclined to agree with those who declare that 'brothers' really mean 'cousins' here, for Holy Writ and the Jews always call cousins brothers. {Pelikan, ibid., v.22:214-15 / Sermons on John, chaps. 1-4 (1539)}

A new lie about me is being circulated. I am supposed to have preached and written that Mary, the mother of God, was not a virgin either before or after the birth of Christ . . . {Pelikan, ibid.,v.45:199 / That Jesus Christ was Born a Jew (1523)}

Scripture does not say or indicate that she later lost her virginity . . . When Matthew [1:25] says that Joseph did not know Mary carnally until she had brought forth her son, it does not follow that he knew her subsequently; on the contrary, it means that he never did know her . . . This babble . . . is without justification . . . he has neither noticed nor paid any attention to either Scripture or the common idiom.

{Pelikan, ibid., v.45:206,212-3 / That Jesus Christ was Born a Jew (1523) } ". . . she is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin. . . . God's grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil. . . . God is with her, meaning that all she did or left undone is divine and the action of God in her. Moreover, God guarded and protected her from all that might be hurtful to her."

(Luther's Works, American edition, vol. 43, p. 40, ed. H. Lehmann, Fortress, 1968)

". . . she is rightly called not only the mother of the man, but also the Mother of God. . . . it is certain that Mary is the Mother of the real and true God." {Sermon on John 14. 16: Luther's Works (St. Louis, ed. Jaroslav, Pelican, Concordia. vol. 24. p. 107)}

"Christ our Savior was the real and natural fruit of Mary's virginal womb. . . . This was without the cooperation of a man, and she remained a virgin after that."

(On the Gospel of St. John: Luther's Works, vol. 22. p. 23, ed. Jaroslav Pelican, Concordia, 1957)

"Men have crowded all her glory into a single phrase: The Mother of God. No one can say anything greater of her, though he had as many tongues as there are leaves on the trees." (From the Commentary on the Magnificat)

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***Who the heck ever heard of embalming with arsenic? ***

http://www.utne.com/environment/arsenic-contamination-ze0z1306zpit.aspx
http://waterindustry.org/arsenic-3.htm
https://mysendoff.com/2011/06/arsenic-embalming-2/

[FourtySeven]

It's simply an assertion that Satan can't [perform miracles]. Why couldn't he? What would stop him from staging a possession and exorcism if it suited his purpose?

This is a question I have struggled with as well when it comes to the question of "miracles". I thought, "Sure Satan could cure someone, or do something we think is good, if ultimately it drew people away from God. After all, the Bible itself says in the end days the anti-Christ would perform signs and wonders so magnificent that they would almost deceive even the elect. So who's to say that a miracle comes from God or Satan?"

Additionally, a careful reading of Mark 3:25 and others demonstrates that at the time JESUS was speaking in parables. This further complicates the issue. It almost seems like we are back where the Pharasees started, unable to discern when miracles come from God and when they come from Satan.

We must not allow ourselves to stay in such a sorry state. If, in fact, we use what we already know about God (and Satan) the tool we need for such discernment becomes evident. This tool is the knowledge that, by his very nature, Satan cannot perform creative miracles. He can only destroy. Confuse. Befuddle. He can't create. This is actually why the Church investigates miraculous claims so meticulously. Precisely because of the possibility they may be a deception from the Evil One.

Many miraculous healings have been investigated and if there is the slightest explaination that's natural, or even that the miracle itself is fake, it's dismissed. This is why there are so few in proportion to how many are reported. Many more are reported than are validated.

This, that Satan can't create, is just a fact that we all must come to know through whatever means. However it's helpful to realize that sometimes, especially these days, Satan is often thought of as like God just less powerful. This is simply false. There are simply things that he can't do, that God can do. One of these is creation.

He can deceive to make us believe something has been "created" but ultimately this is not true. He can not create.

So let's return to the subject matter here: miracles associated with the intercession of Mary (or any saint). These aren't just "wonders" or "signs", no matter how glamorous or dazzling. The miracles in consideration here are miracles of healing which, at their very root, are miracles involving creation, be it either regrown flesh or disease suddenly overcome. They aren't mere wonders. They are things that require a creator to complete. The Creator.

So this is how we know they aren't from Satan. Because they lead people to Christ AND because, Satan simply can't do them.

[Safetgiver]

Who the heck ever heard of embalming with arsenic?...Wouldn’t that kill ya?

[NYer]

People are being led to a “Christ” that requires Mary as a front woman

Had you read this thread all the way through you would have seen this:

A good, devout Catholic doesn’t need to believe in any of Mary’s miracles to be a Catholic. The Church teaches that private revelation, like these sorts of miracles, can be believed, or not.

You apparently also missed this fact on Our Lady of Guadelupe:

And pointing to Christ? The miracle of the cloak and word of its occurrence spread throughout Mexico and it’s believed that some eight million Aztec natives were converted to Christianity.

Missionaries had been in Mexico for decades with only a few hundred converts but Mary's image on the tilma sufficed to convert 8 million Aztecs. This is not coincidence but resulted from what the Aztecs interpreted about that image. It was quite clear and pointed to Christ!

[steve8714]

Where’d you get all that crap? Twelve years of Catholic school I never heard such nonsense.

[daniel1212]

Messages From Heaven

Video (blurry)

[ThanhPhero]

Trà Kiệu is the site of an apparition in Việt Nam in 1885 that is not recognized by the Church because it doesn't fit the norm for these things. 2000 local Catholics were set upon by 4000 government soldiers. The Christians were penned up in the town, armed with swords and staves, no firearms. The surrounding troops saw a lady at the top of the church and aimed their artillery at her and fired to minimal effect. The church still stands with some pockmarks but no structural damage. The townsmen tried an early AM breakout they judged as suicidal. The troops saw something different. They saw the Christians coming out accompanied by that lady and a horde of children walking ahead of the desperate defenders. They panicked and decamped. The siege was over. The Christians did not know of the apparition until they heard it on the news, so to speak. There is a chapel at the top of the hill in Trà Kiệu and it is a pilgrimage site.

There is a strikingly beautiful panorama from the top. The green of the rice fields below doesn't seem to come through a camera very well. The mountains beyond look like one of those old Chinese paintings with their surreal dragon's teeth landscapes.

[NYer]

It is the Holy Spirit who moves us to believe.

In certain instances, that included Mary, the Mother of God.

[ebb tide]

The prots have been making up crap ever since Luther apostatized.

[ealgeone]

>It is the Holy Spirit who moves us to believe.<

In certain instances, that included Mary, the Mother of God.

With no Scriptural support for that position at all.

Hence the desire by millions of catholics to have a fifth marian dogma proclaimed.

Catholic Mary is slowly but surely replacing the Holy Spirit's work in the Kingdom.

[ealgeone]

Martin Luther on the Virgin Mary.

So Luther's ok today??

[ealgeone]

Mary’s Miracles Always Point to Christ And we believe.

uh....no. The spirit at Guadaloupe said build a church for her.

That's not exactly pointing to Christ now is it.

Catholics will take the "word of mary" over Scripture any day it seems.

[ebb tide]

With no Scriptural support for that position at all.

Do you believe Mary was the Mother of Jesus Christ?

Do you believe Jesus Christ is God?

Scripture supports both of the above propositions. Do you reject Scripture?

[Gluteus Maximus]

So Luther's ok today??

Absolutely. And a very Happy Easter to you!

[editor-surveyor]

.
>> “Do you believe Mary was the Mother of Jesus Christ?” <<

.
Only of his Earthly body.

The Logos exists eternally, and has no mother.

Mary was the mother only of the “kinsman redeemer” of mankind, not of the Logos.

Mother of God is a pagan title, used only by lost pagans.

.