This Protestant Researched Marian Miracles, & What He Learned Blew His Mind

Churchpop ^ | April 4, 2015 | Albert Little -

[ThanhPhero]

Only in that it happened in the same country. It involved two different groups of Christians and 87 years separation. La Vang was 1798. Trà Kiệu was 1885.

[dartuser]

Miracles, like those connected to the appearance or the intercession of the Virgin Mary, cannot possibly be explained as work of Satan.

100% presumption ... this purely Catholic belief assumes a level of knowledge about Satan and fallen angels that has not been given to humans.

Miracles which, for all intents and purposes, draw millions to Jesus Christ Himself.

The presumption here is that RC are being drawn to Jesus Christ ...

Recall the OT prescription for determining a false prophet:

If what he predicts does not come to pass ... he is a false prophet.

On the other hand, if what he predicts DOES come to pass ... but he leads you away to follow other gods ... he is a false prophet.

There is no inconsistency in Satan performing miracles to keep RC's in bondage to a system of theology which has no power to regenerate people.

[daniel1212]

ONE, not many. Jesus did “by the power of an indestructible life” what no human priest could ever do: ENTER INTO HEAVEN ITSELF AND SIT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD! It is finished, and there is simply NO NEED to speak to God through anyone except Jesus.

That Christ is the only heavenly mediator btwn man and God (1Tim. 2:5) is a strong argument, while the utter absence of other things are as well.

“What saith the Scriptures?” (Rm. 4:3; 11:2; Gal. 4:30) “Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. (Proverbs 30:6)”
1	Prayers in Scripture addressed to God in Heaven	Over 200 prayers, besides instruction on prayer to Heaven. (“Our Father who art in Heaven,” not “Out Mother.”)
	Prayers in Scripture addressed to any created beings in Heaven	ZERO prayers or examples, or in instruction on prayer to Heaven
2	Examples or teaching showing God being able to hear and respond to prayer from earth addressed to Him in Heaven.	Multiple. “I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will heal thee..” (2 Kings 20:5; cf. Ps. 65:2; 66:19,20; Lk 1:13)
	Examples or teaching showing created beings being able to hear and respond to prayer from earth addressed to them in Heaven.	ZERO. Angels and elders offering up prayers before the judgments of the last days in memorial (Rev. 5:8 and 8:3,4; f. Lv. 2:2,15,16; 24:7; Num. 5:15) does not constitute this ability, which is unique to God.
3	Examples or teaching showing God able to personally communicate with man from Heaven.	Many. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. (2 Corinthians 12:8-9)
	Examples or teaching showing created beings being able to converse with man from Heaven.	ZERO. From what I see, all two-way communication required both created beings to somehow be consciously operating in the same realm.
4	Examples or teaching Christ as being the heavenly intercessor between man and God.	Many. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; (1 Timothy 2:5) For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted. (Hebrews 2:18) For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. (Hebrews 4:15-16) Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. (Hebrews 7:25)
	Examples or teaching any as created beings as heavenly intercessor between man and God.	ZERO. See under 2 above.

[daniel1212]

Good read Daniel. Bookmarking for future reference. :)

But see the RC reply!

[steve8714]

...giving new meaning to the phrase “fine print”

[DungeonMaster]

Good post.

[St_Thomas_Aquinas]

-— Explain the 68 Miracles of Lourdes. -—

I doubt that many, if any, have examined the scientific evidence, or even read the essay.

As Catholics, we believe that all truth is God’s truth, since Jesus is Truth Itself. We must accept truth wherever we find it, even if it challenges our preconceptions or beliefs. St. Thomas’ great synthesis of Christian theology and ancient Greek philosophy is probably the greatest example.

And Catholics treat empirical evidence similarly. Accept the true and reject what’s false.

In contrast, the reflexive reaction to dismiss facts that at least seem to contradict Protestant tradition, seems fairly common among Protestants.

[verga]

I will pray that God opens your mind and softens your heart.

[pbear8]

The science is what interests me, the reflection in the eye, the lack of brush strokes, the tilma lasting for 500 years, the position of the stars and that the image ‘floats’ by 1 micron over the tilma.

[editor-surveyor]

.
Kennith Copeland is a major kook!

I have a set of cassette tapes from his ministry that would knock the socks off of any Bible believer with their twisting of scripture.
.

[defconw]

REALLY! For the millionth time! NO ONE SAYS SHE IS!

[editor-surveyor]

.
The Psalms are mostly prayers of prophecy.

I see no harm in repeating them as prayers, but where is your personal message then? The Psalms are not your thoughts, they are the thoughts of the Psalmist.

As Yeshua said: “by their much speaking.”

.

[editor-surveyor]

.
Mary has no ability to ‘interceed.’ She sleeps, as do all in the bosom of Abraham.

Anything that comes from the ‘Mary’ spirit is purely the work of the adversary, moving would-be believers out of the realm of saving belief.

Philippians 2:12

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

.

[omegatoo]

No one is created by their mothers. Birth does not equal creation. No Catholic believes that Mary created God, but she did bear him into this world. That is what mothers do. If you continue to argue that Catholics believe Mary created God, then you are arguing from a false premise.

God came physically into this world in the form of Jesus. Jesus is the only human who was also God. Before Jesus, God did not exist in the world as fully human.

God could have created a body for Himself in any way he chose, but He chose to be born. For that He chose a mother. Mary is the mother of the human body of Christ. His soul inhabited that body from conception, so Mary was His mother just as yours was to you. Mary’s body was used by God to create His human form, just as your mother’s body created yours (except you required a human father). That was not her idea, it was God’s.

Jesus’ human flesh is only God when His Godly presence is with it. Was His body God in the time between His death and resurrection? Are our bodies the same thing as our souls, inseparable? Is your body ‘you’ after you die? Did Jesus’ soul die on the cross?

Jesus’ Godly presence is not limited to His physical human body. That is the essence of transubstantiation, not its undoing. He can join His soul to anything He chooses to. When He said ‘This is My Body’, that is exactly what He meant.

Love,
O2

‘And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?’

[Springfield Reformer]

The “forgers” all were/became protestants.

So you are saying there were Protestants in the 9th Century? This is a breathtaking confession, because I have heard for years now there was nothing but monolithic Roman Catholicism from day one until Luther popped into being ex nihilo. But now we have a confession, in print, that Protestants predated Luther. (dramatic fanfare) This. Could. Change. Everything. :)

Or not. I expect a certain response here. It's the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. Since no true Catholic could ever produce a forgery in defense of their faith, it must have been time-travelling Protestants.

But a fallacy is a fallacy is a fallacy. Catholics can sin, can they not, ET? And if they can sin, they can lie. Just like any other fallen human being. I promise you, there is great relief in true confession, which is saying about ourselves what God says about us. It's what liberates us to finally start dealing truthfully with the problem.

So here's your dilemma, ET, at least as I see it. Either you stand by your admission that Protestantism predated Luther by at least 600 years, or you admit that the forgeries were in fact an exercise in Catholic creative writing. Which is it?

And yes Daniel, it is astonishing the lengths to which some will go in rationalizing inconvenient facts. How much lighter the burden of the true Christ, how much easier His yoke, how much rest could be had, by all of us, if only His word could be given the honor it is due.

Peace,

SR

[FourtySeven]

I think you, mlo, may also benefit from what boatbums posted here.

[Grateful2God]

David had some of the most beautiful expressions of praise, need of God, love for Him, the gamut of human emotion in those verses! He expressed what is intrinsic to our humanity, along with prophecy and his own prayer as King.

That argument is so [SELF-CENSORED] absurd I'm not even gonna go there. It's not even worth repeating. Amazing.

[Grateful2God]

Sorry, but with the exception of the Scripture portion, that’s a crock.

[FourtySeven]

Sorry: to answer your question directly (and for clarification): Yes and no.

Yes an exorcism is an act of God (when successful).

No it’s not an “act of creation” per se in that it doesn’t create anything.

I don’t have issue with what you write to me in other words. I will stand by what I posted to mlo because sometimes in our society today especially “miracles” can be synonymous with wondrous acts or things. These things like levitation or slight of hand tyoe things. Satan can do them, so these alone can’t be taken as a miracle from God.

All I was saying was that in addition to such things if some creative act was also associated with such intercession, then that creative act could only come from God.

But what you posted is certainly valid as far as exorcisms go. There are just other miracles than exorcism that’s all.

Like miracles in any Christian denomination even if they aren’t Catholic. I don’t believe that they are the work of Satan (as long as, again, they are creative). I think this is a reasonable position. And also one that forces everyone to seriously consider the documented miracles in the Catholic Church. Because as your post aptly demonstrated, a house divided can’t stand.

[daniel1212]

If you haven’t read Scott Hahn’s book “Hail, Holy Queen” may I suggest you check it out. Professor Hahn addresses the issues you raise far better than I ever could.

Wrong. Scott Hahn’s sophistry does not and cannot refute the evidence against the Mary of Catholicism as described.