Posted on 03/29/2015 2:11:17 PM PDT by RnMomof7
LOL! Please provide chapter and verse in support of the above paranoid ramblings. Meanwhile, we "RCs" will continue to take the Lord at His Word rather than work up an unnecessary sweat rebelliously twisting and distorting His teachings.
What?! Please provide chapter and verse in support of the above? The numerous . refutations do just that time and time and and time again !
This my last post as I am about to get personal with the bullheaded blind denials by a fringe RC whose devotion to Rome evidently drives him to deny what is obvious to any one with open eyes. Even an atheist could see the subject is how prophecy of Scripture came to be written, and thus is the more sure word, not the claimed veracity of the Roman magisterium.
Bye
Some folks take a little longer to utterly embarrass themselves than others.
So why do you do it? It seems you are trying to force Scripture to fit your interpretation by using only a partial passage. Had you let Peter finish the thought he was making, it is clear Daniel1212's explanation is the correct one and yours', or your church's, is incorrect. Peter is NOT even talking about the "interpreting" of Scripture BY a magesterium vs. an individual, but that the prophets spoke as they were led by the Holy spirit and NOT by their OWN interpretation of His revelation. In other words, what is termed "verbal plenary inspiration" explains this point.
I think it is crystal clear that Peter is specifically talking about Scripture being the "more sure word of prophecy" compared to oral teachings and the remembrances of men. It is because the Holy Spirit carried along the prophets in the very words they were to write and that trumps the passing on of truth through word of mouth.
For example, Moses writes about all the things God did going back to the creation story that he wasn't even alive for. Yet, everything he wrote - because he was writing as the Holy Spirit moved him - was the truth. We can trust what the book of Genesis says about Abraham, Isaac and Jacob because Moses wasn't writing his own interpretation of the events or even what may have been passed down to him orally through his Jewish tradition. Now, more than likely there WERE written records of ancient history composed by scribes and learned men. But they haven't the same author (the Holy Spirit) which means they are not Divinely-inspired and authoritative. That's the issue many have with the Apocryphal/Deuterocanonical books being added to the same canon as the inspired, sacred writings from God through His prophets. These books do not have the same pedigree, the Holy Spirit as author, the assurance of Divine-inspiration or the authority intrinsic to the writings we accept as from God.
Inspired Scripture commands obedience because it is God's word to mankind. Nothing of mere human origin has that same authority and is precisely why the Scriptures remain the standard for our faith and practices.
That’s why I jump in early so I can be among the first.
The above interpretation necessitates ignoring the context established in the preceding verses. BTW, the Magisterium (the teaching office of the Church) was established by Jesus Christ.
"And the eleven disciples went into Galilee, unto the mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And seeing him they adored: but some doubted. And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world." (Matt 28: 16-20)
In 2 Peter 1, St. Peter reiterates the virtues (joined with faith) which are necessary for salvation, and reminds us that the Apostolic teachings are not derived from fables but have been received directly from Jesus Christ. In that context, it is obvious that the "firm prophetical word" (2 Peter 1:19) he is referring to is that which he has received from our Lord Himself. Verses 20-21 are a continuation on that theme. Verse 21 is a reminder that the Holy Ghost is the source of Divine Inspiration. The authority of the Church's Magisterium to officially interpret Sacred Scripture proceeds from Christ Himself:
"He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost." John 20: 21-22
The erroneousness of that interpretation is affirmed by the existence of a plethora of conflicting private interpretations of Sacred Scripture posited by those who reject the Deposit of Faith (the teachings Christ entrusted to His Church). "By their fruits you shall know them." (Matt 7:16)
On the contrary, it is the ONLY way in can be interpreted without ignoring the whole context. The "teaching magesterium" is every bit as under subjection to sacred Scripture as individual believers are. Why did God go to all the trouble of ensuring His revelation was written down and preserved all these thousands of years if He didn't intend for us to have an unchangeable and assured resource for testing truth claims? The "more sure word of prophecy" is held in contrast to humanly speaking and traditions of men. Jesus' example was to discredit traditions when they nullified God's word.
Though your religion claims it is the one, true church Jesus established, it must STILL be in submission to the sacred word of God. When they presumed to make Scripture in submission to them, they ceased being a valid representation of Christ's body. Christ's church is a spiritual house of which all believers are as living stones forming its structure. When two or more believers gather in His name, He is there among them and it matters little what name they give their ecclesia. Christ knows His own and we know Him. Every believer is indwelt by the Holy Spirit and He is who illuminates the truth of Scripture to those who diligently seek to know it. There IS no blanket authority passed down like a crown from one person to the next. Genuine authority comes when leaders remain true to God's word. It departs from them when they pervert the truth and teach an accursed Gospel.
It’s clearly not God's intention that individual believers privately determine the “more sure interpretation of scripture”. "Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation" (2 Peter 1:20) plainly declares that individuals do not possess such authority. And for good reason. Individual interpretation rather than interpretation by an authoritative body produces chaos, not unity. It was individual interpretation which produced the myriad of discordant voices composing Christianity today. The Methodists traditionally interpreted the Scriptures to mean that God objected to drinking and cards. The Christadelphians interpreted the Scriptures to mean that the Trinity didn’t exist, and the human soul was not immortal. The Quakers interpreted the Scriptures to mean that God wants us to be pacifists. Individuals who reject the guiding authority established by Our Lord draw themselves and others into heresy. This is why St. Paul exhorted his bishops to take heed to themselves and to the flock and to rule the church of God:
"Take heed to yourselves, and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. I know that, after my departure, ravening wolves will enter in among you, not sparing the flock. And of your own selves shall arise men speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them". (Acts 28-30)
Christ established His Magisterium to ensure that our understanding of Sacred Scripture would remain “unchangeable and assured”.
“Though your religion claims it is the one, true church Jesus established, it must STILL be in submission to the sacred word of God. When they presumed to make Scripture in submission to them, they ceased being a valid representation of Christ's body. Christ's church is a spiritual house of which all believers are as living stones forming its structure. When two or more believers gather in His name, He is there among them and it matters little what name they give their ecclesia. Christ knows His own and we know Him. Every believer is indwelt by the Holy Spirit and He is who illuminates the truth of Scripture to those who diligently seek to know it. There IS no blanket authority passed down like a crown from one person to the next. Genuine authority comes when leaders remain true to God's word. It departs from them when they pervert the truth and teach an accursed Gospel.”
This argument exhibits a profound lack of understanding of both the Divine Origin and the function of the Magisterium. The Magisterium (the teaching authority established by Jesus Christ) interprets Sacred Scripture; it does not write it. Its role is to prevent the brand of individualistic nonsense that causes a Christian to wake up one day and decide that the Bible actually means that the Trinity doesn’t exist, or, like the Arians, that Our Lord was only a creature. The Magisterium preserves and safeguards Sacred Scripture from individual misinterpretation. What was true in Paul’s day is true in our own: without an overseeing body with the authority to interpret Sacred Scripture, individuals can and will contrive the most absurd heresies.
Therefore, it logically follows that Magisterial authority is passed on from one person to another. The precedent was established by Christ with the eleven disciples (Matt 28: 16-20 ) and carried on by Paul with the church leaders in Acts 20. Those who reject Magisterial authority sow division among the members of the Body of Christ.
Though your religion claims it is the one, true church Jesus established, it must STILL be in submission to the sacred word of God. When they presumed to make Scripture in submission to them, they ceased being a valid representation of Christ's body. Christ's church is a spiritual house of which all believers are as living stones forming its structure. When two or more believers gather in His name, He is there among them and it matters little what name they give their ecclesia. Christ knows His own and we know Him. Every believer is indwelt by the Holy Spirit and He is who illuminates the truth of Scripture to those who diligently seek to know it. There IS no blanket authority passed down like a crown from one person to the next. Genuine authority comes when leaders remain true to God's word. It departs from them when they pervert the truth and teach an accursed Gospel.
Bears repeating......
And what is most clear is that Peter was referring to how the "prophecy of Scripture" was given - by Divine inspiration- thus it is the "more sure word," and was not referring to understanding it.
And as said, to be consistent, then if it was referring to the latter, then it would require that understanding and teaching of Scripture be under Divine inspiration, which Rome herself does not claim.
But it does not matter what is clear in Scripture: if Rome says something then certain devout RCs will defend it no matter how absurd it is and makes them look.
You got something agin' false prophets?
Matthew 7:15-20
15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, and the evil tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut down, and shall be cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them.
I see...
Pope Stephen VI (896–897), who had his predecessor Pope Formosus exhumed, tried, de-fingered, briefly reburied, and thrown in the Tiber.[1]
Pope John XII (955–964), who gave land to a mistress, murdered several people, and was killed by a man who caught him in bed with his wife.
Pope Benedict IX (1032–1044, 1045, 1047–1048), who "sold" the Papacy
Pope Boniface VIII (1294–1303), who is lampooned in Dante's Divine Comedy
Pope Urban VI (1378–1389), who complained that he did not hear enough screaming when Cardinals who had conspired against him were tortured.[2]
Pope Alexander VI (1492–1503), a Borgia, who was guilty of nepotism and whose unattended corpse swelled until it could barely fit in a coffin.[3]
Pope Leo X (1513–1521), a spendthrift member of the Medici family who once spent 1/7 of his predecessors' reserves on a single ceremony[4]
Pope Clement VII (1523–1534), also a Medici, whose power-politicking with France, Spain, and Germany got Rome sacked.
bump
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