Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Never Thirst-Taking Jesus" Literally" can be Fatal
Thoughts of Francis Turretine ^ | July 17, 2014 | TurretinFan

Posted on 03/29/2015 2:11:17 PM PDT by RnMomof7

Never Thirst - Taking Jesus "Literally" can be Fatal

Roman Catholics like to try to claim that they are just taking Jesus "literally" when they interpret "this is my body" to mean that what was in Jesus' hands was not bread but his physical body [FN1]. Three passages in John help to illustrate the problem with that approach: John 4, John 6, and John 7.  In the first, Jesus refers metaphorically to living water, in the second Jesus refers to himself as food and drink, and in the third Jesus offers drink to those who thirst.

In John 4, Jesus interacts with the Samaritan woman at Jacob's well.  He asks her for water, she objects because he's Jewish, and he responds that she should be asking him for water, because the water he offers is better than the water from Jacob's well. She misunderstands him as speaking physically, even after some further explanation.  She wants to stop the labor of drawing water and misunderstands Jesus' comments about "never thirst."
John 4:6-15
Now Jacob's well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour. There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink. (For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.) Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans. Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water? Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle? Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw.
In John 6, Jesus interacts with a number of "disciples" who want Jesus to repeat the miracle of the loaves that's reported at the beginning of the chapter.  Jesus explains that the person who believes on him will never thirst and whoever comes to him will never hunger, calling himself the "bread of life" that "came down from heaven." Jesus insists that the bread he offers is better than the manna that the people ate in the wilderness.  Jesus talks about them eating his flesh and drinking his blood, but they take him physically and go away in disgust.  Jesus explains that the words he speaks are spirit and life.  Jesus asks the twelve if they will go away too, but Peter (speaking for the group) says that they will stay with him because they believe and know that his words are the words of eternal life.
John 6:26-71
Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled. Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work? Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat. Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven. And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven? Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
I am that bread of life. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve. 
In John 7, Jesus interacts with those at the temple for the feast.  Jesus offers the thirsty people water.  John explains to us that Jesus is speaking about the Spirit as the "rivers of flowing water."
John 7:37-39 
In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
These passages illustrate Jesus' fondness for using food as a metaphor for trust in him.  We approach the Lord's table by faith, coming to Him as represented by the bread and cup.  We gain a benefit from this if we do so by faith, but not if we do so any other way.  It is not the physical elements that provide the benefit we receive, it is the Spirit.

Remember what Jesus said about clean/unclean foods:
Matthew 15:17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
Unfortunately, it seems our Roman Catholic friends and relatives fail to understand this.  Christ is our spiritual food and drink, not our physical nourishment.
Isaiah 44:3 For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:
Psalm 105:41 He opened the rock, and the waters gushed out; they ran in the dry places like a river.
Isaiah 48:21 And they thirsted not when he led them through the deserts: he caused the waters to flow out of the rock for them: he clave the rock also, and the waters gushed out.
Psalm 78:20 Behold, he smote the rock, that the waters gushed out, and the streams overflowed; can he give bread also? can he provide flesh for his people?
1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
The blessings we receive in Christ are primarily spiritual blessings.  We drink the spiritual drink from the spiritual Rock, and that Rock is Christ.  He is our Rock, we trust in Him.

To the glory of his grace!

TurretinFan

Footnote 1: I should add that the Roman Catholic position is particularly absurd in that it takes "this is my body" as implying that the bread ceases to be bread and becomes the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus.  Likewise, it is claimed that "this is ... my blood" implies exactly the same thing about the contents of the cup.  That's quite far from taking the words literally, in which the bread would just be the body, and the contents of the cup would just be the blood.



TOPICS: Apologetics; Evangelical Christian; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: doctrine; theology; tradition; transubstantiation
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 341-356 next last

1 posted on 03/29/2015 2:11:17 PM PDT by RnMomof7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; CynicalBear; daniel1212; Gamecock; HossB86; Iscool; ...

ping


2 posted on 03/29/2015 2:12:12 PM PDT by RnMomof7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RnMomof7

Beware the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.


3 posted on 03/29/2015 2:17:22 PM PDT by BipolarBob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: berdie

later


4 posted on 03/29/2015 2:17:31 PM PDT by berdie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: RnMomof7
Yer doin' yeo-woman's work, Mom .. and I thank you.

I don't feel very wordy today, so I'll just AMEN all the good stuff here

5 posted on 03/29/2015 2:17:37 PM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RnMomof7

Well reasoned - and Thanks!!

Jesus’ sacrifice was once and for all - to imply that it is repeated in every Eucharist is a sacrilege!


6 posted on 03/29/2015 2:18:15 PM PDT by impactplayer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: RnMomof7

Old heresies never die.


7 posted on 03/29/2015 2:22:16 PM PDT by 9thLife ("Life is a military endeavor..." -- Pope Francis)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RnMomof7

This was posted on another thread this morning. I’d never heard of this before...

The Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano
Ancient Anxanum, the city of the Frentanese, has contained for over twelve centuries the first and greatest Eucharistic Miracle of the Catholic Church. This wondrous Event took place in the 8th century A.D. in the little Church of St. Legontian, as a divine response to a Basilian monk’s doubt about Jesus’ Real Presence in the Eucharist.

During Holy Mass, after the two-fold consecration, the host was changed into live Flesh and the wine was changed into live Blood, which coagulated into five globules, irregular and differing in shape and size.

The Host-Flesh, as can be very distinctly observed today, has the same dimensions as the large host used today in the Latin church; it is light brown and appears rose-colored when lighted from the back.

The Blood is coagulated and has an earthy color resembling the yellow of ochre.

Various ecclesiastical investigation (”Recognitions”) were conducted since 1574.

In 1970-’71 and taken up again partly in 1981 there took place a scientific investigation by the most illustrious scientist Prof. Odoardo Linoli, eminent Professor in Anatomy and Pathological Histology and in Chemistry and Clinical Microscopy. He was assisted by Prof. Ruggero Bertelli of the University of Siena.

The analyses were conducted with absolute and unquestionable scientific precision and they were documented with a series of microscopic photographs. These analyses sustained the following conclusions:

•The Flesh is real Flesh. The Blood is real Blood.

•The Flesh and the Blood belong to the human species.

•The Flesh consists of the muscular tissue of the heart.

•In the Flesh we see present in section: the myocardium, the endocardium, the vagus nerve and also the left ventricle of the heart for the large thickness of the myocardium.

•The Flesh is a “HEART” complete in its essential structure.

•The Flesh and the Blood have the same blood-type: AB (Blood-type identical to that which Prof. Baima Bollone uncovered in the Holy Shroud of Turin).

•In the Blood there were found proteins in the same normal proportions (percentage-wise) as are found in the sero-proteic make-up of the fresh normal blood.

•In the Blood there were also found these minerals: chlorides, phosphorus, magnesium, potassium, sodium and calcium.

•The preservation of the Flesh and of the Blood, which were left in their natural state for twelve centuries and exposed to the action of atmospheric and biological agents, remains an extraordinary phenomenon.


8 posted on 03/29/2015 2:36:44 PM PDT by Twotone (Truth is hate to those who hate truth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RnMomof7

Jesus also said “feed my sheep.” Many take that to mean give people manna/food, others say it means to teach the word of God. Doing the latter would have been best for the whole world.


9 posted on 03/29/2015 2:54:00 PM PDT by This I Wonder32460
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RnMomof7

Jesus shows us that salvation in many ways very simple. Repent and believe.

Second temple Judaism mad it very legalistic and burdensome. Rome has carried out that tradition.


10 posted on 03/29/2015 2:55:12 PM PDT by Gamecock ("The Christian who has stopped repenting has stopped growing." A.W. Pink)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: RnMomof7
Footnote 1: I should add that the Roman Catholic position is particularly absurd in that it takes "this is my body" as implying that the bread ceases to be bread and becomes the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus. Likewise, it is claimed that "this is ... my blood" implies exactly the same thing about the contents of the cup. That's quite far from taking the words literally, in which the bread would just be the body, and the contents of the cup would just be the blood.

In addition, Catholics do not take the Lord literally when He said to “drink this cup,” for as you cannot drink a cup (though if transubstantiation is allowed, so means of ingesting a cup could be), but it is manifest that the cup represents what it contains. Yet while endocannibalism and drinking blood is forbidden, they refuse to allow the bread to represent the Lord's sacrificial body and the wine His shed blood.

Rather than telling Jews to ingest human blood, the wine that it contained represents the Lord's blood which was to be poured out, like as Ps. 22:14 prophetically says, "I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels." (Psalms 22:14) And which metaphorical language the apostles would have been well familiar with.

More, bless God.

11 posted on 03/29/2015 2:55:27 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Twotone
‘Bleeding’ Eucharist at Primary School in Moruga [Trinidad]
The Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano, Italy (The Body and Blood of Christ) [Catholic Caucus]
Do You Believe in Eucharistic Miracles?
Eucharistic Miracle at St. Stephen's in New Boston MI.(Catholic Caucas)
[CATHOLIC CAUCUS] EUCHARISTIC MIRACLES

[CATHOLIC CAUCUS]'Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity': The Miracle and Gift of the Most Holy Eucharist
Looking After a Eucharistic Miracle (Franciscan Recounts His Special Mission in Siena)
Eucharistic Miracle: 2009?
Possible Eucharistic Miracle in Poland
The Eucharistic Miracles(Catholic Caucus)
Vatican display exhibits eucharistic miracles
Eucharistic Miracle - Bolsena-Orvieto, Italy
Physician Tells of Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano -Verifies Authenticity of the Phenomenon
BLOOD TYPE FOUND IN ICONS IS SAME AS IN SHROUD OF TURIN AND 'LANCIANO MIRACLE'
Eucharistic Miracle: Lanciano,Italy-8th Century A.D.

12 posted on 03/29/2015 2:58:42 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Twotone
The analyses were conducted with absolute and unquestionable scientific precision and they were documented with a series of microscopic photographs. These analyses sustained the following conclusions: •The Flesh is real Flesh. The Blood is real Blood.

Which lacks real substantiation, and is actually contrary to Eucharistic theology, though it is consistent with the literal "plain language interpretation of the Lord's supper accounts and Jn. 6, versus the metaphysical contortions that must be resorted to in the face of reality. But both of which are contrary to Scripture.

13 posted on 03/29/2015 2:59:52 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Twotone
Have you hear the one about the magicians throwing sticks on the ground and they turned into snakes (Ex 7)

Matthew 24:24, Jesus warns, “For false christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect-if that were possible.”

2 Thessalonians 2:9 says, “The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders.”

Catholics will be so easily deceived by Satan.. because they are a people of superstition, loving "apparitions" "and signs

Satan loves it when Romanist kneels before the bread god ...

What did Jesus warn??

Mark 8:11The Pharisees came out and began to argue with Him, seeking from Him a sign from heaven, to test Him. 12Sighing deeply in His spirit, He said, "Why does this generation seek for a sign? Truly I say to you, no sign will be given to this generation."

14 posted on 03/29/2015 3:05:20 PM PDT by RnMomof7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Twotone

Jesus also said, “I am the Door” (now He’s wood and hinges). John said, “Look! the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world” (now He has wool and goes “baa”).

It’s clearly figurative language - the bread/body, the wine/blood, the door, the lamb, the spring of living water, etc.

If Jesus literally meant His actual flesh and blood, we would be practicing cannibalism in Holy Communion. At the Last Supper, the Passover Lamb, the wine, the unleavened bread are all symbols, a picture of what God was about to do in the death of His Son as the sacrificial lamb without spot or blemish Who would take in Himself the sin of the world.


15 posted on 03/29/2015 3:14:03 PM PDT by rusty schucklefurd
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: 9thLife
Old heresies never die.

How true. The Roman Catholic cult adds more ridiculous claims and keeps touting the old canards...

16 posted on 03/29/2015 3:27:05 PM PDT by WVKayaker (Impeachment is the Constitution's answer for a derelict, incompetent president! -Sarah Palin 7/26/14)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: RnMomof7
From one argument out of the Watchtowr handbook to the next, geez.
17 posted on 03/29/2015 3:32:30 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: daniel1212

Not only what you posted but the account lacks centuries of sample custody.


18 posted on 03/29/2015 3:32:49 PM PDT by redleghunter (In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth (Gen. 1:1))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: RnMomof7
Roman Catholics like to try to claim that they are just taking Jesus "literally" when they interpret "this is my body" to mean that what was in Jesus' hands was not bread but his physical body

Why does junk -- I use the word after due consideration -- like this ALWAYS point the finger at "Roman Catholics," and the proceed to trash a belief that's held equally by Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, traditional Lutherans, and traditional Anglicans?

I tend to think it's because "Roman Catholic" is some sort of talismanic boogie man to a large part of the evangelical Protestant world, and that's really what this is all about.

19 posted on 03/29/2015 3:34:04 PM PDT by Campion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Campion
Because it's become just another form of Rabbinical Judaism without the Talmudic teaching that Christ is burning in Hell.

When you consider the fact that various factions adopt things like dispensationalism and the Rapture based on the teaching of an individual in spite of such things having never been taught prior to that individual it's clear that most Protestant factions do indeed have the equivalent of Talmudic teaching that they consider superior to Scripture.

Not really surprising given the fact that fundamental to all Protestant doctrine is the assertion that the Holy Spirit is imperfect and implicit in that assertion is the replacement of the Holy Spirit with the Self and Self Alone

20 posted on 03/29/2015 3:44:52 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 341-356 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson