Do non-Mormons face discrimination in Southern Utah?

SUIndependent.com (Southern Utah Independent) ^ | Jan. 29, 2014 | Michael Flynn

[TaMoDee]

Notice what appears to be US Army Cavalry in the far background guarding the execution site. John D. Lee was one of B. Young’s enforcers when they moved across the US to the Utah “Kingdom of Zion”.

[43north]

I used to live in Pocatello, ID which is about 65% LDS. My observation is that when Mo’s become the majority in an area all of the non-Mo’s become Gentiles and are most definitely discriminated against in business, professional, and social situations. The worst thing is, they don’t even realize that they’re doing it - nor do they care.

[Elsie]

Is the pope Catholic?

[Forward the Light Brigade]

If you don’t like it in st. George—move to Nevada or any of the other 49 states. Mormons built Utah—and it wasn’t easy. They will do what they want—what do you think? join the LDS or move on.

[Elsie]

join the LDS or move on.

[Elsie]

I understand Salt Lake has large non LDS population so the social climate in that city may be very different than that of smaller towns or rural Utah.

This place has a large population OF Mormons!!

[Elsie]

So its just like any other community. You be polite, dont step on toes, fit in as best you can and shop at all the local stores.

After a while they get used to you and vice versa. You don’t have to convert, a lot of them are Jack Mormons and get caught at the bars like everyone else. Most of these people are hard workin ruralists...farms, ranches, oil rigs, mines...they have a hard time walking the straight and narrow too.

[Utah Binger]

A non Mormon at a gathering in Southern Utah. John Wesley Powell is the guy on the left with his sleeve dangling. Albumen photograph circa 1872-73.

[Utah Binger]

Non Mormon stole my dog.

[Regulator]

Join the LDS or move on

Oooooo, a threat! How skeery!

Hey Junior....you wanna make us all leave the Land of Zion, why doncha step out from behind the curtain, say your name, and tell us how yer gonna do it?

Otherwise dry up and blow away, loudmouth.

[Elsie]

Where are they NOW, considering...

---

 

The gruesome be headings of some 40 Ute corpses in 1850, heads stacked in boxes,

and hung by their long hair from the eves of buildings at Fort Utah,

 has long been ignored, “You didn’t see the Indians beheading the Mormons.”

 

-- Historian Robert Carter

[Elsie]

Both quite handsome fellas!

[Elsie]

“People who practice this faith and believe this religion are different,”

---

Amoung the MORMONs chapter 8

 

 

The first thing that struck me was
the sermons Brigham delivered directly
we corralled at night He would declaim
for an hour, and we had to sit around and 
listen. Sometimes he would be followed
by others, and the ranting would be kept up for two or
even three hours.

=======================================================

 

The followers generally seemed to me an ignorant
lot of people, drawn from the lowest classes.  The
religious mania had a decidedly strong grip upon them,
and I believe if these lengthy services had not been
held every day somebody would have been killed.
They would have thought as little about murdering me
as they would one another.

 

==============================================

 

At Laramie we picked up about a dozen people
whom the Mormons had managed to inveigle into join-
ing their community. They had a good hard Xxy to get
me into the fold, and held out as an inducement the bait
of half a dozen wives. I said that was good enough for
me, but I would reserve my decision until later on,
especially as I had matters concerning their welfare and
safety on my mind that were more important for the
moment. So they agreed not to pursue the subject
further, and left me unmolested for quite a considerable
time.

 

=========================================================

 

Had there been an outlet to the Pacific Ocean there
is little doubt in my mind that Brigham would have
proclaimed himself King of Utah, for I had over and
over again heard him discuss the project with some of
his ministering angels.

 

 

====================================================

Now Brigham Young decided to send a party back
to Nebraska, in order to make arrangements for bring-
ing out a large body of the chosen people. Ninety-two
were selected for the purpose, and the old Mexican and
I accompanied them. Brigham asked me to remain,
but I was rather tired of the Latter Day Saints by this
time, and anxious to get back to my squaws and the
old life I could live without any feeling of restraint.

We had a pathetic leave-taking, which was again
the occasion of a lengthy religious ceremony, and I
galloped out of camp with a light heart and a full
pocket, only too glad to think I had got safely away
from this crowd of peculiar people.

 

 

 

===============================================

Chapter XVLI

 

I made my way straight down
to the stream. When the Indians saw me coming all
alone, they came out of the high cane-like rushes, which 
were very tall there, and stood right in my path. I still
went unconcernedly on until I got up to them, when one
of them, a tremendously tall fellow, asked me in broken
English where I was going, and if I was a Mormon.

" Yes, I am a Mormon," I replied, " and I am going
home to Salt Lake City."

" What ward do you live in ? "

" No. 15, just below the Court-house."

I saw at a glance that he was a white man, although
he was painted, and guessed he was one of the fanatical
renegade-destroying angels, whose mission was to kill
every white man not belonging to the sect, and patrticularly
those who were apostates.

====================================================

 

I sauntered leisurely along until I was well clear of
the cane brake, and then I started off at a run, which I
kept up until I had placed a good twenty miles between
Mr. White Chief of the Utes and his band of murdering
rascals. I was not quite satisfied in my mind whether
he might not repent of his leniency, and suddenly develop
a craving for my gun, pistols, and ammunition. As to his
followers, my hair, which was long and wavy, offered an
attraction which made all their mouths water whilst I
was in the camp.

Whether they ever started after me or not, I do not
know. I kept on my erratic course for six days and
nights, and eventually reached a small Mormon settlement
of some ten or fifteen houses on the Bear River. I
put up at a ranche, and stayed there a week, as my legs
were so stiff and swollen, I could hardly move. In fact,
the morning after my arrival I tried to get up, but could
not. I had covered the distance in pretty good time,
considering the country I had passed through, and,
reckoning it over three hundred miles, had done on an
average about sixty miles a day.

 

=========================================

 

During this time old Joshua was always preaching
to me, and trying to convert me to Mormonisn. He
said I could never expect to get along in the world and
prosper so long as I lived in darkness and unbelief

I told him what Two Buck Elk said about the Great
Spirit feeding the birds and the buffaloes, and said I
guessed, no matter what I believed in, I should always
get enough to eat.

He seemed to take the same view that I did when I
first heard Two Buck Elk say this, and pointed out that
a man did not live to eat alone, that he had another
mission to fulfil — to become prosperous, till the soil,
fructify the earth, and a whole lot of other things, which,
boiled down, were reduced to my becoming a Mormon
straight away. He told me that if I did he would
ensure me more work than I could do, in a light, easy
way, and that my life would be one of perpetual happi-
ness and bliss.

« Well, Joshua," I said, " I will think it over and let
you know when I have fully made up my mind one way
or the other." I resolved inwardly that as long as I had
a dollar left I would be independent of the Mormon
crew, whom I heartily despised.

================================================

 

I must candidly confess I saw nothing repulsive or
bad in the Mormon religion. The only thing I objected
to was polygamy — and I was not particularly squeamish
about that, considering my experience with my own
squaws. But what can be tolerated in an Indian cannot
in a white woman — at least, that was the view I took
of it.

I found the Mormons, as a rule, a hard-working class
of people, who thought they were doing right. They
had been gulled by a few smart men like Brigham
Young, Joseph Smith, Hcbcr C. Kimball, Joseph Young
and his brother, Daniel Wells, and a number of others,
who feathered their nests by fattening on their poor
deluded followers.

Brigham Young was certainly the smartest man I
ever saw. If he had been President of the United
States instead of Utah, his name would have been
handed down for generations ; but, like a good many
others, he fell short of what he aimed it.

I have heard him preach more than fifty times, and
I must do him the justice to say he did not go in for
hell and damnation, as many of the other priests did.
His creed was simply — Be kind, good, and just to all
mankind ; take plenty of wives, multiply and replenish
the earth. Teach this to your children, who will be the
only children of God. We are the Latter Day Saints.
Our salvation is ensured.

Out of the tabernacle Brigham was a very sociable
and convivial fellow. He was very pleased to see me
again and to hear that I had at last entered the Church.
He reminded me that ten years of my life had been
wasted, and that if I had taken his advice and done so
when at Laramie I might have occupied by this time
a high position under him, like many of the early
pioneers.

He next inquired what had brought me to Salt
Lake City again, and I told him I had come with the
troops, and that immediately upon my arrival I had
seen the error of my ways, and hastened to receive
absolution upon the first opportunity. I further said
that during the ten long years we had been separated
1 had wished over and over again to be received into
the Church, and that now it had liappcned I was just
as happy as I had before been miserable.

He was pleased to see that my eyes had at length
been opened, and he knew when he first met me on the
Platte that sooner or later I should be received into the
fold. The Great Book said they were to increase and
multiply and replenish the earth, and he hoped I would
settle down and take many wives, and so carry out its
precepts.

I said that was just what I intended, directly I
had decided what I was going to do.

 

=========================================

 

A Gentile hotel had been started in the city, and one
of the waitresses was a good-looking English girl to
whom I was very partial ; we used to go out together



A LOST /DEPUTATION 205

and compare notes about the Mormons. I never told
her that I was one — in fact, I swore I hated them as
heartily as she herself did ; but one Sunday night we
had been out walking, and wandered into a man's
garden, where we got larking about. He sneaked out
and caught us, and, recognising me, reported me to
Brother Godby.

This was a fine thing for my reputation. Here was I,
a psalm-singing goody-goody young Mormon, bowled
out at one go. Away went my good character, and I
stood revealed in all my bare iniquity. I thought to
myself, John, my boy, you had better seek some more
congenial atmosphere before anything more is found
out about you. Accordingly I cast round to find some-
body who was going anywhere, or doing anything,
whom I might accompany and so get away from the
city.

This I knew was no easy matter, for apostates were
well looked after by the destroying angels, and few
who signified their intention of leaving got away safely,
unless under a Government escort. Many men, women,
and children have been butchered trying to escape from
the Mormon Hell, and yet the murders could never be
traced to any individuals. I knew, though, who were the
moving spirits, and these were Porter Rockwell, who
knew me well. Bill Hickman and his son. All Hunting-
ton, Lot Huntington, J. C. Luice, and others. I was
therefore not anxious for it to get wind that I intended
making tracks.

 

=================================

 

Long before daybreak the following morning I was
up, and, bidding a mental adieu to everything around me,
I started off as hard as I could go after the caravan. I
met one or two people I knew in the city, who asked
me where I was going in such a hurry, and I told them I
was carrying some medicine from Brother Godby's to
some one sick.

Arrived at the mouth of Echo Canyon, I stopped for
a moment to take breath, and there, as solemnly as I
had taken it up, I laid Mormonism down for ever. I had
had quite enough of that to last me my lifetime. Turn-
ing round and taking a final look at the city where I
had had as much fun as most men, I put on the steam
and doubled through the canyon as fast as my legs would
carry me.

LINK to https://archive.org/stream/lifeamongamerica00nelsrich/lifeamongamerica00nelsrich_djvu.txt

[Utah Binger]

Over here in Mount Carmel, the Mormons of Long Valley show great respect for our activities in bringing a new perspective to the region. They also understand my position on the matter of religion.

Do they talk behind my back? Of course, but have most likely confused me with someone who gives a shit.

http://www.thunderbirdfoundation.org
http://www.thunderbirdfoundation.com/index.cfm/shop/product.cfm?product=349

[Regulator]

That’s beautiful. I luv Mt. Carmel and Southern Utah as anyone would. Never lived there but been through it at least 50 times on my way to or from SLC, flown over the whole area for many hours just touring from the top.

And like I said...living in rural Northern Utah was just fine. People were a bit peculiar...but just people.

[Oatka]

They told me that outwardly the Mormon people are very friendly and courteous. But that they are also very aware of who is LDS and who is not. And they always want to know if you are Mormon or what religion you are.

True. We live in the middle of 'em. As someone mentioned here elsewhere, the tip off question is "What Ward are you in?" If you tell 'em "None" or "I'm not Mormon" you can sense the deflectors go up. They are still friendly, but . . .

We did make friends with one elderly couple. The husband died soon after and she was on some hard times. The Church came in and helped her out, but boy, they made her pay for years afterwards in "volunteerism". They ALWAYS had something for that poor woman to do and she kept referring to it as "being called". What got me is when she said that in their working years they had to show the Elder/Bishop their W-2 forms to prove they were tithing their 10%. The Church sure does run their lives to an extent that many here, including me, would rebel.

Hypocrisy is in all religions and they are no different. We went through the border town of Mesquite, NV and stopped at a discount liquor store. The parking lot was loaded with Utah tagged cars. I asked the clerk what was up and he said the all the Mormons come over and stocked up for the weekend. A running joke was that you never asked just one Mormon to go fishing/drinking beer with you as the guy would drain you dry. Ask two along and neither will touch the stuff for fear of being ratted out by the other.

All that being said, every time we went to St. George, even at the height of the recession, the place always had a thriving appearance. Wife and I would ask "Recession? What Recession?". Stores went empty but didn't stay that way long. In fact, the whole state gives you the impression that it is prosperous and well run.

[wardaddy]

Sounds like Switzerland to non Swiss in my time there

I like Utah

[colorcountry]

As a native on a southern Utah small town, and ex-mormon I can confidently answer the title questions with....

Yes, and no.

[wardaddy]

I agree

All this whining about discrimination and oppression is libtard talk

We all get how Mormonism is and its past

But it’s not today’s Mormons fault

[Regulator]

And omt now that its quiet on this thread.

I grew up about a mile from Dixon’s house in Tucson.

The view in Cloudbanks and Shadows was also the view out our front door.

My grandparents knew him casually in the 40s; it was a small town then but with many interesting people.

dont think I ever knew about the house at Mt. Carmel - great idea to open it. Have been planning to do that drive someday soon, need to take my kid through the real West. Maybe we’ll stop by, still love Dixon’s work.

It’s the West I remember.