Posted on 12/09/2014 5:23:25 PM PST by Salvation
Saint of the Day Ping!
I love this one as it is so close to home.
I was fortunate enough to be in Mexico, DF the same year he was beatified.
I have seen the real Manta in person and been to the very place where Mary appeared to him.
Very moving to be where true spiritual history happened.
Would love to see the actual tilma and all the evidence that non-believers have tried to destroy it.
How many times did you go around on the tread?
>>Would love to see the actual tilma and all the evidence that non-believers have tried to destroy it.<<
I also saw the “sacrificial cross” — arguably one of the most amazing artifacts of the modern era. Actually, I might have been one of the last tourists to see the original Basilica as time and tide have all but condemned it. There must have been hundreds of cross-wires and struts holding it together. MUI they don’t let anyone inside anymore.
And “tilma” is a more accurate spelling (post in haste, etc.)
>>How many times did you go around on the tread?<<
I think 10 — and we were ALSO blessed to have a priest come out and bless us and with holy water (he actually flung it like a college dorm dude). But we did also get a moment when our holy cars were blessed and anointed.
WHEN (I pray not if), Mrs. FD is declared cancer free next Friday we will do a pilgrimage back to the Basilica (soon, in the next few months) to thank God for His divine intervention. Actually, no matter what, we will go there since He has already intervened with the prayers of all of FReepers and our family and friends. His will be done.
Mrs. FD who has never had a single bad thought about anyone ever, deserves His intervention. I have been not the best Christian, as in, pretty rotten — but I am doing my best for her.
It wasn’t until much later I realized how cool it was we were there when we were and all the surrounding things that are now lost to history.
As a follow-up, it is quite an amazing experience.
To see, in person, a physical manifestation of God’s hand on Earth is pretty overwhelming.
Why Mary showed up in Mexico, France, Rome and so many other places is a wonderful mystery — every time She brings messages of love from Her Son and the Father. Maybe she is the physical connection that humans need so much.
And don’t get me started on the electron microscope examinations of the Virgin of Guadalupe’s eyes (in a good way)...
There is a small piece of the Juan Diego’s and Our Lady’s Tilma on display at the Cathedral of Our Lady in Los Angeles. It is the only relic of the Tilma outside Mexico.
Wow! I wasn’t aware of that.
This apparation of Mary was as the west had to receving an icon, direct from both God and Heaven. The tilma that the image appeared is still around to this very day.
Sorry.
It's not a "tilma" as in cactus fiber cloth, either.
Just ask the bishop of Mexico City (who was ex-communicated for telling the truth, as best as he could determine after careful exploration of the issues).
He wrote a book about it, though I do not at this time recall the title.
What makes you an expert? Something you read on the Internet?
That is all that is required of you, my friend. I will say a prayer for you and your lovely wife. It would seem that she is on Our Lady's radar, good hands to be in.
Your OPINION only.
It's not "my opinion" only, but is the opinion of many whom have good reasons for holding that view, inclusive of a Franciscan priest who's order had centuries ago had custody of the artifact, until that artifact was taken away from them, and given over to the Dominicans --- if memory serves correct.
Do you not know also of the Virgin of Guadalupe Extremadura (Spain)?
Go look that one up> I could provide a link, for a decent place to begin one's own investigation -- but why should I?
Yet when or if you were to look upon image of that statue, she does have a dark face.
Men such as Columbus, (and many other New World explorers whom set off from Spain made pilgrimage to that statue)-- some time right before he sailed away to the West, on his first voyage.
There were paintings of that statue also, imagery or likeness of that icon.
The Mexican Guadalupe image bears striking resemblance to other Marian imagery of that era, which paintings also resembled and can traced in similarity to European/Middle Eastern paintings of yet greater antiquity.
It does not take a highly trained art historian, to be able to trace the 'art' aspect influences --- which quite likely made their way to Mexico almost as in form of token/talisman-like imagery that the one whom the Franciscan identified as Marcos the Indian was the one whom either painted the original image, or else other later and unnamed persons repainted the image as seen today.
There is said by some of the college student who participated in the [ahem] research that a Hispanic and Roman Catholic college professor engaged in, that there had been an original, and cruder image which had been painted over with a white paste of sorts, with that image having also been retouched upon numerous occasion.
Yet one will not find information of that sort (other than in possibly less-than-fully-truthful presentation) at any of dozens of web pages devoted to the image, and to "Mary".
So--- if you would like to find out the truth, then I will suggest that one engage in a diligent search for it -- beyond all the place where it is being promoted.
By which I mean, once it is known what the alleged details are, from there one need see if those same could be made subject to falsification.
In other words -- test the claims.
Which is far, far different that looking only for reassurance for what one desires to be true...
A bishop of Mexico City -- right about the time this Juan Diego person was canonized did so, but boy howdy, it cost him a great deal with that being yet more demonstration that "the church of frauds" as the Orthodox referred to Rome in regards to the various forged documents those of Rome produced (but many of Rome, themselves not knowing any better, did themselves accept) in support of the concept of there allegedly the bishop of Rome, that pope there, and not other "popes" was always pope over all from the earliest Church universal. The Orthodox protested, and still do, but do so quietly and circumspectly.
I could say more which runs contrary to that which is otherwise much repeated in varied ways concerning the image and it's history -- but again -- why should I bother?
Is there anything which makes you one?
What qualifications would you require -- or myself, personally --- in order for you to open yourself to the possibility that I could be correct -- enough. ???
I don’t have to be an expert. I have faith. Not sure what compels certain people to throw cold water on every thread we post. But matters not. Our Lady of Guadalupe! Pray for Us!
That is a true story? How awesome! WTG! Monsignor Monroy!
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