Posted on 10/31/2014 5:22:14 AM PDT by Colofornian
I recently listened to an interesting podcast episode of Buddhist Geeks called Creating Living Ritual included a critique of modern Buddhisms dead ritualism. The discussion included some thoughts about what modern ritual should include to be successful and ironically, many of those suggestions Joseph Smith included in the first endowment ceremony which have recently been removed or altered. It got me wondering: did Joseph Smith create better ritualistic practices than we have today?
He goes on to lament that Buddhist rituals, definitely including most Tantric Buddhist rituals, are nothing like that. They are dead, zombie rituals. (emphasis mine) He also explains that rituals rely on symbolism which is inherently culture-specific and that has forced continue updates and progress in Buddhist ritualsuntil recently. ...even during the most doctrinally conservative periods of Buddhist history (meaning you cant change the words of the Buddha), leaders felt empowered to develop new rituals.
Does any of this hit home to temple goers? Is the endowment ceremony a dead, zombie ritual or is it emotionally exciting, intellectually fascinating, intensely meaningful?
I really enjoy attending the temple and participating in the baptisms for the dead...
Also, Mormon Expression did an episode on The Top Ten Changes to the Temple:
Removal of penalties
Oath of Vengeance removed
Lecture at the veil and Adam-God theory used to be taught
You used to be naked under the shield during Washings & Anointings
The preacher was removed who used to lead participants in a Protestant hymn
Five points of fellowship abandoned
Changes to the garments
Washings & Anointings used to be with whiskey and perfume
Endowment now is a film rather than live performance (except the Salt Lake and Manti temples)
Change of female pledge of obedience such that women pledge allegiance to their husband as the harken unto the Lord
(Excerpt) Read more at nearingkolob.com ...
#2: Yet the author still asks: Is the endowment ceremony a dead, zombie ritual...
#3: From the blog:
Also, Mormon Expression did an episode on The Top Ten Changes to the Temple:
Removal of penalties
Oath of Vengeance removed
Lecture at the veil and Adam-God theory used to be taught
You used to be naked under the shield during Washings & Anointings
The preacher was removed who used to lead participants in a Protestant hymn
Five points of fellowship abandoned
Changes to the garments
Washings & Anointings used to be with whiskey and perfume
Endowment now is a film rather than live performance (except the Salt Lake and Manti temples)
Change of female pledge of obedience such that women pledge allegiance to their husband as the harken unto the Lord
For a rendering of other temple changes written by a Mormon, see:
Consider the multiplication of "endowments for the dead" performed in Mormon temples:
A. "Through 1985, a cumulative total of...almost 86 million endowments for the dead have been performed."
B. 25 years ago today - 1988 Oct.1 [Lds complete 100 million endowments for the dead in temples]
C. "A 1996 estimate by Richard Cowan states that around 150 million endowments have been performed, most of which were in behalf of deceased persons." (Endowment (Mormonism))
D. Projecting the above #...if Lds merely maintained its early 1990 growth figures, it has now performed 300 million endowments for the dead. More likely, due to the the fact that the Mormon Church went from 49 temples in 1996 to now 143 completed temples (almost quadrupled) -- with a staggering 48 completed in 1999 and 2000 alone -- and technological (digital) increasing genealogical information, it wouldn't surprise me to discover that Mormonism is on the cusp of its billionth endowment for the dead!
These numbers are mind-boggling considering:
The Mormon Church...
...didn't even build temples for necro purposes until after 1840...
...and didn't have an "endowment house" until 1855...
...didn't really start endowments for the dead on any kind of broader scale til the late 1870s...
...and didn't have a temple outside of Utah until late 1919...
First temple built Kirtland Ohio, 1836; Second temple built Nauvoo, Illinois c 1845. Even as the Nauvoo temple was under construction, portions of it were used for sacred rites, such as baptisms for the dead in the basement font. During the winter of 1845-46, the temple began to be used for additional ordinances, including the Nauvoo-era rituals of Endowment and Sealings in Marriage and Adoptions.
Thank you. However, that's an incomplete comment - at least in the context of baptisms of the dead.
You see, the Mormon doctrine of baptizing the dead didn't even enter the picture til 1840. So that temple wasn't constructed for that purpose.
Secondly, the Mormons lost that temple when Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon fled the town due to an insolvent debt on an insolvent bank Smith jumpstarted + bad real estate debt, etc. (And for those who might be tempted to think it...No, the Mormons were NOT persecuted out of Ohio)
Per LDS "apostle" Boyd K. Packer:
"They built the temple in Kirtland...The Saints lost the Kirtland Templethat was to be something of a pattern for that generation. The Church does not have the Kirtland Temple now. (Lds "apostle" Boyd K. Packer, The Holy Temple, p. 174, Bookcraft, 1980)
Seems like they did some funky things 150 years ago.
Other than intellectual curiosity, who cares?
Last I checked, if you told them to go away, they left.
(And I forgot to mention in the last post that the time period Smith fled Kirtland was the late 1830s...again, before baptism of the dead being intro’d in 1840)
I really wish FR weren’t used as a major conduit to demonize The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
he vitriol is beneath what FR is about. It’s never an adult conversation or honest inquiry.
That said, parse this.
KJV
1 Corinthians 15:29
Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
Again, let me cite Lds "apostle" Boyd Packer from his book The Holy Temple (1980):
Much of what happened at Kirtland was repeated in Nauvoo. We built a temple in Nauvoo. It was destroyed...In Nauvoo the temple was defiled and destroyed. (Packer, p. 174)
So what you really are referencing is but a mere handful of baptisms for the dead in the early 1840s to mid 1840s...It really wasn't until the latter 1870s in Utah that Mormons seriously embraced baptisms for the dead.
And the rates really weren't all that high "per member" until Heber J. Grant's "presidency" began pushing it in the latter 1920s. Mormons had a high spike in the 1930s...only to be diminished in the 1940s.
It then began to pick up steam again...and Hinckley's big push for new Mormon temples worldwide, coupled with the digital revolution making historical genealogical records available, is when it began looking like a chain fast-food drive thru operation.
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One other note:
Now what's quite interesting in Packer's above comment...one that made me think, "Wait a minute, Mr. Packer! I thought Joseph Smith prophesied on Jan. 19, 1841 that 'my servant Joseph and his seed after him {shall} have place in that house, from generation to generation, forever and ever, saith the Lord. And let the name of that house be called Nauvoo House...' (Lds "scripture" Doctrine & Covenants 124:59-60)
...Hmm...I guess phrases like generation to generation re: Smith's personal household and forever and ever must have different meanings to Mormons and their leaders, eh?
I beg your pardon. I almost always engage in dialogue. An exchange of ideas. And I usually cite Mormon leaders themselves...something rarely done on FR when discussing religious opinions and convictions.
IoW...I painstakingly allow Mormon leaders to speak for themselves...rather than simply citing only what others have said about them.
Your use of the word "never" is not only vacant hyperbole, but it suggests you've omnisciently examined EVERY single thread & comment on FR of which you reference.
(May I suggest you bow out of your bid for such claimed omniscience?)
...demonize The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints...vitriol
To accuse a fellow FREEPER of being vitriolic...(acidic...caustic) seems to betray what you might otherwise advocate. IoW, your appeal to religious tolerance is hard to fathom if you don't tolerate what others post on FR.
Why is it religious tolerance for others, but you seemingly have difficulty practicing it yourself?
Simple. Here, let me cite the same verse with proper emphasis on a single word:
"what shall THEY do which are baptized for the dead...?"
[the apostle Paul doesn't say "we" are baptized for the dead...rather, he points to an unknown "they" sect practicing it...]
I know EXACTLY what you mean!
It is SO unbecoming!!
I'm glad it's merely an individual doing this; and NOT an Organized Religion!!!
Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
O...
K...
Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
'they' are pagan; non-Christians.
Have YOU any facts that show otherwise?
“Why is it religious tolerance for others, but you seemingly have difficulty practicing it yourself?”
the pot calling the kettle black!
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DATE | Occultic Communication Encouraged | SOURCE |
Open House start date April 3, 1993 San Diego, CA Temple | Visitations by the dead: Prior to the dedication of the San Diego temple, local Mormon families were given a packet entitled Family Temple Preparation Material. Included in this written material were about seven pages devoted to "true stories" of temple patrons who were visited by the dead | They See Dead People? |
Aug. 12, 1949 -- republished by Mormon church in its Deseret Book Co. publishing, 1972 | "I haven't actually seen any of them, but sometimes when I have finished an endowment or a sealing session in the Salt Lake Temple my bosom has burned, and I have known keep within me that those persons for whom I have officiated have accepted that work." | Bountiful Second Ward Chapel, "Disembodied Spirit Life" section of Life Eternal: A Series of Four Lectures Lynn A. McKinlay, Deseret Book Co. 1972, p. 206 |
1980 | Lds "apostle" Boyd K. Packer: "On many occasions I have been present -- when sealings were to be performed, when temple ordinance work was being done, when funeral sermons were being preached --in circumstances when the veil was very thin. The gratitude of those who have gone beyond found its way through the misty barrier and was communicated as spiritual things are communicated." | The Holy Temple, Bookcraft, 1980, p. 267 |
2009 | Even Mormon Sunday School material highlights spirit paranormal manifestations | Lds.org Sunday School Chapter Detail: Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Gospel Doctrine Teacher's Manual: See p. 2 |
Fall 2006 (and assumed other years' courses as well) | BYU freshman course offering | Religious Education class at BYU -- C261: Intro to Lds Family History (Genealogy): See 'Manifestations of the Spirits' section, pp. 57-58 |
1996 | An official Mormon church publication -- even placed wholly as a digital publication for years -- highlighted such occultic communication allegedly occurring in 1884 and 1893 ... see chart below | Our Heritage: A Brief History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints 1996 pp. 99, 102 |
1983 | An official Mormon church priesthood manual was encouraging such paranormal communication in citing an 1884 manifestation | Sermons and Missionary Services of Melvin Joseph Ballard, Deseret Book Co. p. 249, as cited in Come Follow Me, Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, p. 162, 1983 |
“False teachings by a False Prophet and a FALSE religious organization fuels mine.
Where did YOU do missionary work?”
Well if that’s what drives you guys to do this stuff on a what SHOULD BE primarily a political website.
The anti Protestant, anti Catholic, anti Mormon stuff gets really old. Its the same crap; by the same posters ALL the time.
No love in any of it; just hatred comes across.
Maybe I’m just getting old and need to stay off the internet.
Reject this dangerous Mormon cult, and join the Church of Cartoon Kristianity.
Weve got pickled okra. We are orthodox.
CAUTION!! CHRISTIAN BASHING THREAD!!
----------------This thread does not praise God. It weakens faith----------------
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