Posted on 07/31/2014 8:11:14 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
The pre-trib rapture is biblical doctrine.
The pre-trib rapture as described in the Left Behind series is mass-marketed pabulum.
Exactly! Thank you and Amen!
Several things about a pre-trib Rapture don’t make sense:
1. Many will be saved during the Great Tribulation, and they’ll be just as much Christian as every other Christian. Yet pre-tribbers claim that God loves Christians so much He doesn’t want them to have to suffer through the Great Tribulation. Bewilderingly illogical.
2. Christ specifically prayed for His own in John 17:9, and in John 17:20 He expanded His prayer to include all who would ever believe. In between, He specifically asks the Father to not take His own out of the world, but to guard them from the devil. And that “not” is an absolute negation. And Christ always prayed according to the will of the Father.
3. Finally, it seems to me that there’s some cowardice involved with the pre-trib Rapture.
Act 5:41 And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.
2Th 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
2Th 1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
Php 1:28 And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God.
Php 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
The human part of me would love nothing better than to be extracted from the world before things get bad, but I just don’t see sufficient Scriptural evidence for it.
Too complicated for me. I’m just following the Shepherd in His Authority, doing as He instructed.
That was what I should have posted first.
"we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord"
"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven"
So, if you know when, in the prophetic timeline, the Lord returns, then you know when these events will take place.
Catholic explanation: The link won’t open because you touched yourself recently. Say three Hail Marys and try again.
One could argue that the coming occurs from the beginning of the tribulation. Others could argue that the coming occurs when you actually see Him come down from the clouds.
There’s room to question. That was the point.
If that is so, then why will the "Millenial Kingdom" which is the "...kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world." (Matt 25:34) pass away and be replaced by a "...new heaven and new earth." (Rev 21:1)
Secondly, if Matt 25:31-46 is referring to immediately before the Millenium, then are those that are condemned pulled out of the lake of fire to be judged at the great white throne judgement of Rev 21:11-14?
From what I’ve read, the Southern Baptist Convention has NEVER officially endorsed the Scofield doctrines of the end times, but they have not come out against it either.
It has taken over the Baptist churches, Pentecostal and Assemblies of God churches and many others.
John R Rice, of the Independent Baptist churches refused to endorse it, but after his death, Curtis T Hutson did and it took over the Independents.
I tossed my Scofield Bible several years ago and went back to a good KJV without notes except for margin references.
“The tribulation is a very specific act of God in which He specifically pours out His wrath in judgment upon an unbelieving world (Rev. 6:17). It is an act of His wrath, not just a general “oh well, everything’s going to pot because our political goals aren’t being realised,” which is how many Americans (especially) and post-tribbers seem to approach it. “
This view is short-sighted, as it neglects the acts of the beast and Satan in the tribulation, which are quite central to the entire narrative. Unless you are going to blame God for their acts (including the persecution of many martyrs), there is more going on in the tribulation than simply God pouring out wrath.
I can only imagine how long it took for you to type that, but thank you for it.
God bless you.
I’m with you on the pre-tribulation rapture. It doesn’t make sense.
At no time was God unable to pull his only Son off the cross, which must’ve been a horrible thing for Him to have to witness. Just imagine your own child up there.
Jesus promised His believers that if they would persecute Him, that they would persecute us as well.
Thus my own view of the tribulation being that of mid-trib. Initially the Antichrist will persecute the church. Once the church is taken from the Earth, the wrath of God will be unleashed against those that persecuted His people.
“God has not appointed His children to wrath (Rom. 5:9, I Thess. 5:9). These verses are talking about His wrath IN TOTALITY. Both the future eternal wrath of hell, as well as the temporal wrath called “the tribulation” or “time of Jacob’s trouble.” In essence, God is not a wife-beater, as the post-tribbers seem to think He is.”
The Bible does not equate the entire period of tribulation to “wrath”, or it would be called the “Great Wrath”, rather than the “Great Tribulation”. Obviously, God intends us to view the entire period mainly as a time of troubles, since that is the description He gave us.
One can have troubles without wrath, and indeed every Christian experiences them. God did not promise to save Christians from hardships, in fact, He promised the opposite. He told us that we would be hated for his namesake, and persecuted by the world. He said he would pass His church through a refining fire, to make us holy. He never said that we would be on easy street, spared from the troubles of the world, only that we will be spared from the wrath and judgements reserved specifically for those who reject him.
ping, to see how this plays out.
“An interesting thing about the end times prophesy is that it suggests there will be both a great falling away and a great revival.”
Yes, but I think the revival doesn’t happen until the very end, when the whole world sees Christ return and defeat the beast and his armies. I think this will be God’s very merciful “last chance” for people to accept the truth, before the time of judgment comes.
“Personally, I think there are a lot of people in church who are not Christian.”
Yes, there are plenty of folks who are just going through the motions, for whatever reason. That’s one thing I like about the FR religion forum. As acidic as it may get from time to time, you will find most of the regular posters do have a decent knowledge of Scripture and theological concepts that the average church goer is clueless about.
Then why does this verse refer to the Great Day of His wrath, after the sixth seal is opened?
I challenge you to find anywhere in the NT where tribulation is from God, rather, it is persecution of the saints by Satan and the world. I challenge you to do a word study on "tribulation" for yourself.
And there are passages in Revelation which indicate wrath is falling on the damned, because they’ve taken the Mark, but not on anybody else.
Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
Rev 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
See www.prophecyquestions.wordpress.com
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