Posted on 04/20/2014 4:36:29 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
Yes, χαριτόω is indeed "I bestow grace" (Greek has no infinitive, so first person is used to refer to verbs). So "εχαριτωσεν" is "bestowed grace", or simply "graced".
The noun here is "χάρις", "grace", or in mundane contexts "favor".
"Made us accepted" sounds like a loose rephrasing.
Regardless of whether Colbert is a liberal or a faux conservative or what, he does make some good points and it does seem to stun the “Bible Scholar.”
I didn’t pass any sort of value judgement on this. I just corrected your assertion that his being a satirical conservative show host was somehow new.
Interesting post. I went to Catholic school thru 12th grade and was a good Catholic for a long while. I did leave the Church, but the Church is still a strong influence on me.
I remember when Pope John Paul II died and I was glued to the TV for the funeral. A friend asked why did I care anymore, since I was no longer Catholic, but I did care. I am grateful for my Catholic education and moral foundation.
Still not sure Colbert is what they are making him up to be for the masses.
Depends on which Greek and Hebrew you compare it to...
>>but the Church is still a strong influence on me.<<
I have yet to meet a Catholic (ex or in good standing) who can stomach wasted food. Ever fiber in my being yells “YOU ARE WASTING FOOD! THAT IS A SINNNNNN!!!”
There was a Carl’s Jr. commercial that had a guy tossing an uneaten hamburger onto the roadway and I just wanted to throttle him.
No one here is saying we should look to him for theological guidance. We are just saying it's nice when Colbert publicly puts down a Christless professor. What is wrong with humiliating anti-Christians? We should be glad anyone is doing so on national television and shows the world what a lie Ehrman is teaching.
Unless he repents, he will be weighed in the balance, and found wanting. I would prefer he repent and believe, similar to the way Josh McDowell did.
Thanks for the recommendation. Just added that to my amazon wish list.
Amen! Today it is Catholic, Christian, Orthodox who rejoice as one at the Risen Christ! Our denominations matter not! Happy Easter!
Ephesians 1 6.
Unto the praise of the glory of his grace, in which he hath graced us in his beloved son.
King James
Ephesians 1:6.
To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
"εχαριτωσεν ημας" = "made us accepted"? Seriously?
the glory of his grace, in which he graced us??? Seriously???
χαριτόω
charitoō
khar-ee-to'-o
From G5485; to grace, that is, indue with special honor: - make accepted, be highly favoured.
ἡμᾶς
hēmas
hay-mas'
Accusative plural of G1473; us: - our, us, we.
I'd stick with the superior KJV translation if I was you...At least you can get some meaning out of it...
I’ll have to look for that one. Thanks for posting this information!
Post from any translation you choose. Be careful, however, because some translations (e.g. The Message) claim a copyright interest whereas others are well past all that (e.g. the KJV).
Christians and conservatives have a marvelous ability to destroy themselves and allowing libs and atheists to run the place. It’s quite sickening sometimes.
Probably, because this is a rare verb, not all of these forms are found in extant texts.
In Matt. 28.9, Jesus appears to the women leaving the tomb and greets them with Chairete!, which in Modern Greek would be "Hello!"
I'd do copy and paste if I knew how.
Colbert is not someone i look to for religious guidance.
Me neither. I don't think anybody here looks to him for religious guidance. We're just glad he made that agnostic/atheist look like a fool.
He is unashamed and unrepentant in his profession of his Catholic faith. It amazes me to have seen him more than once invite self professed lapsed Catholics to “jump back in the waters fine”. There really is not a lot of that going on in the main stream media these days. People may not like his comedy or his politics but his defense of his faith is exceptional.
Colbert is a pro-abort, pro-queer “marriage” Catholic in Name Only.
The King James is a fine translation. I use it for most purposes, but I also like the New King James, which retains the majestic form and cadence of the original but avoids English words that are no longer used. This can be good, but there can also be some loss this way, because, for just one example, the old English captures personal pronouns in a variety similar to the Greek, whereas modern pronouns are not as expressive.
For example, Greek has an analog to the singular thou versus plural ye of English. For modern translations, the ye would have to be rendered “you all” (or y’all, depending on where you live) to maintain the Greek sense. So it’s not all sweetness and light to leave behind some of those alleged archaisms. Some of them were pretty useful.
As for “accepted” versus “graced” in Ephesians 1:6, both are acceptable renderings of the root idea, but “accepted” does a better job, IMHO, expressing “favor” in its passive form in a way that connects it meaningfully to finding such favor “in the Beloved.” For a 15th Century Englishman, having your person “accepted” by the King through an intermediary was to discover you had the King’s favor. Somewhat a paraphrase, but a powerful and legitimate communicator of the sense of the original.
(BTW, I should point out that a number of the scholars doing the translation for the KJV had studied the Hebrew and Greek and Latin from their preteen years, along with many of the cognate languages that were tributaries into the main Biblical languages (Persian, Chaldee, etc.). (John Bois, for example, was reputed to have learned to read the full Hebrew text by age 5. That’s five.) They were the cutting edge scholarship of the day. One needs to be quite sure of one’s footing before picking a fight with them.)
Another thing which separates the KJV (and the NKJV) from modern versions is the commitment to the Byzantine text form. Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus were discovered only relatively recently, and have many significantly different readings from the Byzantine, hence the many confusing conflicts between most modern versions and the KJV.
The argument is made for the modern translations that older is better, and Sinaiticus and Vaticanus do make a claim to being physically older. Sinaiticus was found in Saint Catherine’s monastery in the 19th Century. It is thought by some it survived because the active church simply did not use it. Whereas the wide geographic distribution of the Byzantine suggests it was the text form most widely used by the active church.
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