Did Jesus Die for All or for Only the Elect? Two Theologians Debate

Christian Post ^ | 01/26/2014 | Anugrah Kumar

[Faith65]

BFL

[HarleyD]

"The testimony of the Scripture is overwhelmingly clear that Jesus died for the sins of the entire world, so as to pay for the sins of every human being who's ever lived, demonstrating the grace and love of God to the entire human race…Brown argued that the New Testament repeatedly says we are justified by faith, and not by Christ's death only. "So there is human participation."

And there you have it....right at the end. This is what this whole argument is about. We need to save ourselves. That is why God died for the entire race. To show us the way.

Sorry, this is heretical teaching. I would even call it blasphemous. But then some say I'm a bit over the top.

The scriptures are clear:

Joh_8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins."

I don't know how much clearer our Lord can be. We will die in our sins unless we believe that Christ is the Lamb of God who dies for His elect. His blood covers ONLY those who believe in Him. Everyone else will die in their sins. He states it twice in this tiny verse.

Christ did not die for the entire world.

[ShadowAce]

This is what this whole argument is about. We need to save ourselves.

So, you start off by complaining that the other poster says we need to save ourselves, when the actual statement was that we are saved through faith. That is our part in the salvation process. You call it heresy, and blasphemous.

Then you say this:
We will die in our sins unless we believe that Christ is the Lamb of God

<sigh>

This is why people can't talk to you. You rail and scream, and call others blaspheming sinners, then turn around and agree with them.

[HarleyD]

This is why people can't talk to you. You rail and scream, and call others blaspheming sinners

Wow!!! Did I say all that in my post???? Shame on me. I didn't realize how loud my typing was.

If people die in their sins then it is simply logic that Christ did not die for everyone's sins. Even the cool, logical Mr. Spock would agree with that logic.

[bmwcyle]

You hit the nail on the head.

[Cvengr]

btt for ALL

[BereanBrain]

You are correct! He can stick you in a whale, but let’s take a look at what God says people will do....

Read Revelation chapter 16, and see that some people will not turn from their ways, either in a whale, under rocks, struck with disease, hailstones.....

[Salvation]

And God waits and waits for those “ungodly” to repent.

[onedoug]

Deuteronomy 4:19 and Malachi 1:11

[goat granny]

If I want to read revelation again, I would start at the beginning and not pick and choose what I read. Its a short book, but we all have our way of reading scripture. I think certain chapter and verse may be fine for some people to read it that way, but for me context starts at chp. 1 and ends at the end...But sticking someone in a whale I think is quite a unique way of getting someones attention...:O)

[paulist]

“She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.” - Matthew 1:21

He (Jesus) will save (definite, not possible) his people (all of them and only them) from their sins.

Couldn’t really be any clearer, except to those who oppose the Word of God and insist that man is the sovereign one in salvation.

[RoosterRedux]

BFL

I have watched Michael Brown debate the really rude Orthodox rabbi Shmueley Boteach and mop up the floor with him.

Brown is excellent.