Posted on 12/18/2013 9:09:15 AM PST by Dr. Thorne
Seems like even someone of your limited abilities would eventually get bored with it.
“Don’t you get ever get tired of building straw men?”
How is it a strawman? Does Roman Catholicism teach than an active pedophile still has power to forgive sins and offer communion, or doesn’t it? When the Priest has been a closeted homosexual for years, serving communion, praying over the sacred elements so that it may transform into the real body and blood of Christ, and taking confessions and dealing out penance, has he legitimitely been operating in such cases or hasn’t he?
And if he HAS, how can you say that a Priest is just like everyone else, no different from any other religious leader in any other denomination?
Jesus forgives sins, through the person of the priest.
"Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."
Human beings are capable of unspeakable depravity.
Period.
“Jesus forgives sins, through the person of the priest.”
In which case we would have to imagine that the Priest ceases to be during the operation of the sacraments, but is having Jesus speak through Him infallibly, in order to properly forgive, baptize babies, and offer communion, though he is currently in a state of mortal sin, is bereft of the Holy Spirit, and, when he dies, will awake in hell. Your verse in no way supports that, nor are we left with the contented feeling that Priests really are just like “everybody else,” but unlike everybody else, God uses them as His tool on Earth to save your soul.
“A priest is a human being. Period.
Human beings are capable of unspeakable depravity.
Period.”
But Human beings cannot just forgive your sins or transform pieces of bread and wine into the real body and blood of Christ when they pray over it, can they? So Priests aren’t just “human beings.” They are the representatives of God on Earth, a Bishop came over to them and breathed on them, signifying the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, with one really BIG representative over in Rome. AND they do not CEASE to be these things EVEN WHEN they are active homosexuals, or, as in this case, are pedophiles molesting girls.
A Priest, therefore, isn’t just like any human being. They are very special human beings with whom depravity doesn’t matter until they are caught by human authorities, assuming the Bishop doesn’t just shuffle them to another locale.
Prayers given for Eli, and those close to him...
Prayers for Eli and a complete recovery. May the Lord comfort him as a mother comforts her child.
X, I’m so sorry to hear about your grandson. May God grant your family and eli His special grace and peace during this time.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
Darn it!!
How do you obtain those stats?
iavòl!
Go to FR homepage,then “account” and it will be right at the top.
RCs will argue that this has nothing to do with it, though i think the percentage of boys being targeted is far higher among priests. And in any case, basically (as there are exceptions) requiring clerical celibacy is not Scriptural, for it was the norm for pastors to be married.
Thus Paul's instructions in 1Tim 3 ,
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; (1 Timothy 3:2)
And the only apostles that were single were Paul and Barnabas (if the latter was an apostle), and they yet retained the power to marry:
Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas? (1 Corinthians 9:5)
Moreover, celibacy is a gift, and to assume most all clergy have it and thus require it is unwarranted.
This does mean all clergy must be married, and celibacy and continence has its advantages, but that was not the norm, and thus is not to be made the norm.
The other point can be made is that while marriage is no guarantee that sexual abuse will not happen, having a married clergy can prevent the priesthood from becoming a safe haven for homosexuals and pedophiles.
There just won’t be as many openings needed for them to fill.
And even Paul says that it’s better to marry than to burn (with lust). At least if there’s an outlet, then there less chance that a man is going to be faced with temptation that he cannot control.
I do not think Paul was necessarily referring to sexual lust, but in context to a man and a women (sad today we find it necessary to state opposite genders) being hot for each other, in love, and as regards being hormone-driven and lacking sufficient discipline, the basic rule is,
Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. (1 Corinthians 7:2)
Yet i do not think Paul was a man without much testosterone, as instead the description of his life (and its verbs) reads much the opposite, a passionate purpose driven macho man ("injurious," "haling men and women," "compelling them to blaspheme," "who is offended and I burn not").
But he was also a man of strong self-control, and who stated,
but I keep under [subdue] my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. (1 Corinthians 9:27)
Which goes beyond sexual continence, and which we in America need more of.
You are exactly correct. There is no scriptural basis for a celibate priesthood. The early Church did not mandate celibacy as a prerequisite for serving in the clergy. Mandated clerical celibacy was instituted in the Middle Ages as a response to corruption and nepotism in the Church.
On the contrary, from what Paul wrote, it seemed to be expected that they would be married.
If a man cannot manage his own household, how can he qualify as a deacon or elder?
And how can a single man advise on how married couples are to relate and raise families.
What I’ve noticed is that the single people have all the answers, until they are married with children.
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