Posted on 11/23/2013 7:39:52 AM PST by EscondidoSurfer
I love hearing stories about those who are in the trenches, overcoming lust. It seems like almost anyone at any stage of life is vulnerable to this sin. Lust is relentlessly ”deceitful” (Ephesians 4:22).
Today’s story takes the form of a short but thought-provoking email exchange I shared with Joe—75 years old—who lost his wife and is intent on “finishing strong.” To do this he needed to get his head straight about lust. (He has given me permission to share this.) Here is Joe’s story:
(Excerpt) Read more at overcoming-lust.com ...
this idea that having sex with yourself is fine is not fine
This author would tell the alcoholic “just one drink, once in awhile is ok...”
"The purpose of this website is to help you and those you love to gain and maintain victory over lust." --Jim Vander Spek, author, "Overcoming Lust"And then the author goes on to tell "Joe" that it's fine to masturbate. Can't imagine Jim's book is all that helpful.
2352 ...“Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.”138 “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of “the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved.”139 (1735)
To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety, or other psychological or social factors that can lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability. --Catechism of the Catholic Church
I looked at it too and thought “What a hypocrite.”
This article brings a number of thoughts to mind….. What Christ said is “But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.” (Matthew 5:28) This verse only deals with Joe’s situation indirectly but there are probably no other ones that are better. The subject of masturbation doesn’t come up in scripture except for one reference which really has nothing to do with the morality of the act from the perspective of whether self-gratification is ever acceptable. I think most would agree that the act of masturbation is typically accompanied by thoughts of sex with someone who the individual has lusted after…thus what Christ would appear to be saying is that under these conditions, this is committing adultery because what goes on in the heart is as much of a reflection of who the individual is as actually carrying out the physical act. However, since the subject of masturbation is never specifically raised in scripture, it would appear that the act is fine as long as the individual is fanaticizing about the spouse they are married to as opposed to someone else. Joe may want to consider something else…. If Joe believes his wife is in heaven, he will see her again but it won’t be as his wife. “For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.” (Matthew 12:25)
???
"...Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother's wife, he wasted his seed on the ground in order not to give offspring to his brother. But what he did was displeasing in the sight of the LORD..."
Catechism of the Catholic Church
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2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action." "The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose." For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved." To form an equitable judgment about the subjects' moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability. |
» Enter the Catechism at this paragraph
Catechism of the Catholic Church
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2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices. |
Yeah, I hear ya. Just more confusion for an already tormented soul.
5.56mm
And who doesn’t read this and imagine a 75 year old man masturbating. Wow. Thanks for that image this morning.
Yuck.
This guy is not hurting anyone. He is not lusting after anyone.
His behavior is not going to lead to anything sinful.
If you are going to pick and choose your Old Testament rules you will get yourself in trouble.
I think context is important here. And in the context of this conversation, I feel sad for this guy’s loss. His eternal soul will be fine.
I think that something people miss is that basic animal lust is necessary for reproduction. it’s natural and should be appropriate. Lust for the sake of lust; without love, commitment, and affection; is the problem. Using another person for your own base desire does the damage. Lusting after a woman (seeing her an an object) is the bad thing.
Healthy lust is a natural part of love and should be encouraged. It’s a mitzvah.
I cannot imagine how a person is supposed to achieve the necessary orgasm for procreation without *some* lust.
Maybe it’s like the ‘love of money’ deal? Money, in and of itself, is not evil. The love of money is.
You guys are a tough crowd. Those rocks in your hands must get heavy.
Hey! I’m in the “pro-lust” crowd! lol!
Well, you and I will enjoy our time in the afterlife!
It’s not Marie who’s part of the tough crowd.
Sex is an appetite that God created in man (and women) and needs to be fulfilled. It’s a normal and natural appetite.
Like anything, the enemy can pervert it and cause it to become lust. But the desire for sex in and of itself is not lust. It’s interesting how so many people consider the natural, God given sexual desire sinful.
Joe raises some interesting points, some that have never occurred to me.
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