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Opinion: Mormon zombies are hard to find is Halloween fit for LDS? [The OTHER World Series]
KSL.com [owned by Mormon church] ^ | Oct. 25, 2011 | Davison Cheney

Posted on 10/25/2013 10:46:34 AM PDT by Colofornian

I need to find a good Mormon monster — one that seeks out non-tithe-payers or feasts on those who drink Diet Coke. A Zion zombie, perhaps, that eats the brains of, you know, the pure in heart.

Zombies are really popular this year.

“The Mormon Munsters — have you been invited to their family home evening?”

Or “The Addams Family with special guest Eve. The mother of all wants you to clean your room.”

How about a well-placed mummy — not the kind that makes you do laundry, but the dry, dusty Egyptian variety. After all, Egypt has ties to Mormon-dom through Moses and Abraham, as well as Joseph and his amazing coat. The angel of death and those spooky long fingers was very scary, and the look is not all that hard to re-create with dry ice and a fog machine.

The dilemma is that I am not trying to scare people. The other dilemma, more of a predicament really, is that I don’t know what place Halloween really has in Mormon-dom. As an LDS dad, one who is seeking the “virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy” (LDS Articles of Faith), Halloween leaves me in a seriously scary quandary.

Currently I am a father of teenagers who like pizza and texting. A scary night for them is a night without their cellphones. And spooky is them having to do their homework without their iPod while sitting at the table — very frightening.

As an LDS dad, Halloween leaves me in a seriously scary quandary. When my daughter was younger she asked me why we celebrated Halloween. I told her that we didn’t. She looked around at the colored lights, the black lights, the giant white ghosts floating in the yard, the spooky music being piped to the street, the table of cookies and popcorn and misty burbling punch and the Edgar Allen Poe's raven perched on my shoulder and said, “Okaaaay.”

Still, “celebrate” seems like a strong word. But based on results, I am defiantly celebratory on the 31st of October. So, why do I, a practicing Mormon, celebrate a holiday that seems to have base in the druid, the pagan and the pranks, the haunted and even the undead and all things seemingly un-Christian?

Yes, the imagery of Halloween has changed somewhat, even from Halloweens of the ’70s and ’80s when I was a participant and not a party planner. The holiday’s typical colors of black and orange have softened to include green and purple.

Witches can be cute, as can be vampires, scarecrows and zombies. Threats of mischief are to be taken as “adorable,” and we bribe the kids in costume at our door with candy or at my dad-the-dentist’s house, toothbrushes.

Originally, children in Great Britain disguised in costumes went from door to door. They visited homes and were rewarded with cakes, fruit and money. It’s all about the candy now. Try picking the “trick” when you are presented with the option. See what happens. My guess is that you will get some confused faces and someone will call you a grouchy old man. Hurt my feelings, it did.

They carried jack-o’-lanterns to guide the souls held in purgatory. True, these lanterns were first created with Irish turnips.

We use pumpkins now, both bigger and easier to carve. Just try to whittle something really scary, like a Ute fan, on a turnip.

Elements of the autumn season, such as fallen leaves, bare branches, corn husks and scarecrows are images we conjure for the season, right along with themes of evil, death and the occult, murder, mayhem and monsters, both mortal and mythical, without a second thought.

“It’s just one night a year” some Mormons say, and that it is. Many believe that Halloween is simply a fun excuse to get together. Often, “Trunk or Treats” are held in or around the neighborhoods LDS chapel with little or no negative significance to the practice. Others reject Halloween as a holiday, concerned that it trivializes paganism and is incompatible with their Mormon beliefs.

I took my children to the Trunk or Treat that was held in my ward building several years ago. However, there is no such church/ward sponsored celebration this year, and that is fine by me. In its place is a chilly chili fest, and I am in charge of the corn bread. It just seems a better fit for church. And anytime I can eat and talk and be in charge of something is a holiday for me.

Other friends believe Halloween is much like the Mexican holiday “Dia de Los Muertos,” a day to celebrate their loved ones who have passed. They light jack-o’-lanterns — not caring if they are pumpkin or turnip — to help guide their beloved dead.

I like the idea of remembering the dead. I rather hope someone will remember me. This predicament, like many other quandaries in my life, I have had to decide for my own, with my wife, what is appropriate for my family.

I have not found instruction by the leaders of my church concerning Halloween specifically, but I have discovered a whole lot of common sense.

I am starting to understand what Elder James E. Faust, formerly of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, might have meant when he said in the Ensign (November 1987, p. 33), “No good can come from getting close to evil. Like playing with fire, it is too easy to get burned: ‘The knowledge of sin tempteth to its commission.’ … The only safe course is to keep well distanced from him and any of his wicked activities or nefarious practices. The mischief of devil worship, sorcery, casting spells, witchcraft, voodooism, black magic and all other forms of demonism should be avoided like the plague.”

That is the direction I find myself to be heading with my family concerning Halloween. Maybe my fixation with lights of all color as a party planner is an attempt to “chase darkness from among (us).”

Personally I plan to celebrate this Halloween with my family by eating. Yes, there will be hordes of candy involved. And I may be dressed like Edgar Allen Poe, Gandalf or Elmer Fudd.

Or, maybe, the Creature of the Latter-day Lagoon.


TOPICS: General Discusssion; Other Christian; Other non-Christian; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: bfd; halloween; lame; lds; mormonism; sowhat; whocares; zombies
From the article: Zombies are really popular this year. “The Mormon Munsters — have you been invited to their family home evening?” Or “The Addams Family with special guest Eve. The mother of all wants you to clean your room.” How about a well-placed mummy — not the kind that makes you do laundry, but the dry, dusty Egyptian variety. After all, Egypt has ties to Mormon-dom through Moses and Abraham...

(And while we're talking about Egyptian ties to Mormondom, don't forget the "Reformed Egyptian" supposedly revealing the Book of Mormon Joseph Smith supposedly translated while looking thru a hat! Or the Egyptian funeral documents that Smith "translated" as the "Book of Abraham" later)

**********************

In case you missed this week's The OTHER World Series threads, here they are!

* Reviews [The OTHER World Series: 'The eyes of the dead are upon us' - ex-LDS 'prophet']

* Teachings Concerning The Spirit World [Lds: 'unseen...visitors'...from 'world beyond' close]

* Interesting Similarities between Mormonism and Spirit Release Therapy [The OTHER World Series...]

* Do Mormons Believe in Ghosts? [The OTHER World Series: 'spirits...not far from us']

1 posted on 10/25/2013 10:46:34 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

Nothing like wasting space on this 15 minutes of bigoted hate. Jesus would be so proud of you. You are most likely a Satan worshipers by the evidence posted here. I bring the hot dogs and sores to roast on your Hellfire.


2 posted on 10/25/2013 10:57:34 AM PDT by WilliamRobert (Rafael Cruz is an American hero, and he makes me proud to be Texan.)
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To: Colofornian

Interesting


3 posted on 10/25/2013 10:57:42 AM PDT by svcw (Not 'hope and change' but 'dopes in chains' obama's America)
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To: WilliamRobert; All
Hmmm...such Mormonic love...

ALL: Per WilliamRobert's FR HomePage of WilliamRobert: ...am active in my Church (LDS

And these latest comments in response to me simply posting an article published by KSL.com...owned by the Mormon church...posting an article written by an active Mormon!

4 posted on 10/25/2013 11:05:10 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian
There's always the beehive monster from "Plan Ten From Outer Space"!


5 posted on 10/25/2013 11:05:44 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (Just a common, ordinary, simple savior of America's destiny.)
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To: Alex Murphy
There's always the beehive monster from "Plan Ten From Outer Space"!

(Well if this flick didn't make it into Mystery Science 3000's lineup, looks like one they've overlooked and qualifies quite nicely! :) )

6 posted on 10/25/2013 11:14:11 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: WilliamRobert

“Nothing like wasting space on this 15 minutes of bigoted hate. Jesus would be so proud of you. You are most likely a Satan worshipers by the evidence posted here. I bring the hot dogs and sores to roast on your Hellfire.”


But Mormons don’t technically believe in a “hell.” They believe in an outer darkness, which may or may not even be permanent, followed up with 3 levels of heaven, where the vast majority of mankind will go, with only the Mormons going to the Celestial Heaven where they will become gods of their own planets and dwell in the presence of God. Christians of all stripes will be trapped in one of the lower heavens, in eternal envy of the Mormons, which is what will be defined as a kind of “hell.”


7 posted on 10/25/2013 11:19:04 AM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: WilliamRobert

This is written by a mormon, do you mean mormons are haters?


8 posted on 10/25/2013 11:20:12 AM PDT by svcw (Not 'hope and change' but 'dopes in chains' obama's America)
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To: Colofornian
Oops! I almost forgot about the "Mormon Vampire" movie (no, not that one):


Trapped By The Mormons

9 posted on 10/25/2013 11:22:25 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (Just a common, ordinary, simple savior of America's destiny.)
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To: WilliamRobert; Colofornian

You should probably ask to have your comment removed - since this comes from a source you attributed to others.

And then were going to roast hot dogs and s’mores at their hell-fire.


10 posted on 10/25/2013 11:24:05 AM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: Colofornian

Suggestion: Mormons call Halloween, “Baptism Day.”


11 posted on 10/25/2013 11:25:46 AM PDT by dangus
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To: dangus
Suggestion: Mormons call Halloween, “Baptism Day.”

LOL

Could be dubbed, "Mass Necro-Baptism Day!" (and how fitting is that?)

(Where they try to make the "dead" the "undead")

12 posted on 10/25/2013 11:35:42 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

Now that you mention it, what does the Christian community think about Halloween? Seems like this author is conflicted. I have seem other Christians express similar concern, expecially around the Christian homeschool community I am involved with. Is there a consensus? Or is the jury still out?


13 posted on 10/25/2013 11:51:19 AM PDT by T. P. Pole
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To: T. P. Pole; All
Now that you mention it, what does the Christian community think about Halloween? Seems like this author is conflicted. I have seem other Christians express similar concern, expecially around the Christian homeschool community I am involved with. Is there a consensus? Or is the jury still out?

Yes. "Conflicted" is a good assessment -- both within this article and those who have a Judeo-Christian heritage. Many Christian churches try to offer "Harvest festival" alternatives.

Culturally, I think part of it is that you have many who recall Halloween in the pre-Exorcism movie release years ... vs. what it's come to represent since then.

The Hollywood media fare has definitively gotten worse in this regard. Even the Halloween movie series...already violent...was horrendously bad/corrupt from so many other angles with one of its recent sequels. (Might have been its last)

Those who look @ the history of Halloween usually do a lopsided take & tend to focus only on the pagan Druids of the UK region. They tend to ignore its very name -- "Hallow" as another word for "holy" ... based upon the reality that "All Hallow's Eve" was named as such because it preceded Nov. 1 "All Saints Day" -- when the saints of the past were acknowledged.

One more thing: Reformation Day -- when Luther nailed 95 Theses on the Wittenberg Door -- is Oct. 31. Doesn't get quite as much play as it once did...but the 500th anniversary of that comes up in four years...so attention will turn to that big time in some Protestant quarters.

14 posted on 10/25/2013 12:01:54 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

How ‘bout somethin’ reeeeally spooky?

The mishies who keep showing up on your doorstep day after day after day?

The words “We’ve missed you!” intoned with a glassy stare & vacant smile?

Green Jello and carrots?

What about a decapitated SHIZZZZZ on the front lawn?

;^)


15 posted on 10/25/2013 12:26:17 PM PDT by elcid1970 ("In the modern world, Muslims are living fossils.")
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To: elcid1970; All
How ‘bout somethin’ reeeeally spooky? The mishies who keep showing up on your doorstep day after day after day? The words “We’ve missed you!” intoned with a glassy stare & vacant smile? Green Jello and carrots? What about a decapitated SHIZZZZZ on the front lawn?

LOL

For non-Mormons who don't comprende that last lucid elcid comment re: Shizzzzz...Shiz is a Book of Mormon character who...well, allow me to cite Ether 15:31 where this final showdown occurs between two warriors, Shiz and Coriantumr. Coriantumr winds up "smot[ing] off the head of Shiz..."
THEN...
"...AFTER he had smitten off the head...Shiz raised up on his hands and fell; and AFTER that he had struggled for breath, he died."

So, imagine a character arriving at your front lawn on Halloween.
He gets "decapitated" , right?
He then raises up on his hands, OK?
THEN this body is struggling for breath, right?

Good Halloween Front-Lawn Theater, right?

(Actually, just your typical Joseph Smith yarn contained in the Book of Mormon!)

16 posted on 10/25/2013 12:49:06 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

17 posted on 10/25/2013 1:09:35 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (I grew up in America. I now live in the United States..)
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To: Colofornian

I liked America better when people practiced their desired religion and left everyone else alone.

America has become a land of busybodies.


18 posted on 10/25/2013 1:21:03 PM PDT by SaxxonWoods (....Let It Burn...)
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To: SaxxonWoods; All
I liked America better when people practiced their desired religion and left everyone else alone. America has become a land of busybodies.

(Yet no comment on 80,000 Lds missionary spiritual "busybodies" out & about...knockin' on doors...ringin' doorbells?)

If not, rather inconsistent, wouldn't you say?

19 posted on 10/25/2013 1:39:32 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: SaxxonWoods
I liked America better when people practiced their desired religion and left everyone else alone.

I "practice" my "desired religion" and it includes the Great Commission.

20 posted on 10/25/2013 1:45:33 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Just a common, ordinary, simple savior of America's destiny.)
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To: Colofornian
 photo LAUGH_zpsf420ff60.jpg
21 posted on 10/25/2013 1:55:50 PM PDT by baddog 219
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To: Colofornian
Possible Zombie Mormons props:

1. A bowl of lime Jell-O brains
2. Bloody golden plates that are inscribed with the Book of Mormon in an unknown language
3. "I'm a Moroni" button
4. T-shirt that reads "My great-great-grandparents went to the Mountain Meadows Massacre all I got was this bloody t-shirt"
5. Bumpersticker that reads "Ask me about my holey underwear"

22 posted on 10/25/2013 2:07:36 PM PDT by Dr. Thorne ("How long, O Lord, holy and true?" - Rev. 6:10)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

23 posted on 10/25/2013 2:32:31 PM PDT by redleghunter
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To: Dr. Thorne; All
4. T-shirt that reads "My great-great-grandparents went to the Mountain Meadows Massacre all I got was this bloody t-shirt"

Yeah...the Mormons really were distributing all that bounty they stole from the Fancher & Baker parties in latter September into October in 1857. "Harvest season" that year from the Mormons included literally "harvesting" the clothing off of these emigrants' shot-up bods.

With interest...how much would all that be worth?

24 posted on 10/25/2013 3:16:10 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

They may be hard to find but they are easy to spot: white shirts, ties, riding bicycles . . .


25 posted on 10/25/2013 3:19:37 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Obamacare: You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

LOL!


26 posted on 10/25/2013 4:40:53 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (We can thank Mitt Romney for the present situation in our country. His feet are made of clay.)
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To: Colofornian
So, why do I, a practicing Mormon, celebrate a holiday that seems to have base in the druid, the pagan and the pranks, the haunted and even the undead and all things seemingly un-Christian?

A better question is why you consider yourself a PRACTICING Mormon, when you CLEARLY do not follow so much found in your SCRIPTURES?

27 posted on 10/26/2013 4:45:40 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian
So, why do I, a practicing Mormon, celebrate a holiday that seems to have base in the druid, the pagan and the pranks, the haunted and even the undead and all things seemingly un-Christian?

A better question is why youfolks are so OBSESSED with the DEAD?

28 posted on 10/26/2013 4:46:26 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian
So, why do I, a practicing Mormon, celebrate a holiday that seems to have base in the druid, the pagan and the pranks, the haunted and even the undead and all things seemingly un-Christian?

You're kidding; right??

29 posted on 10/26/2013 4:47:00 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: WilliamRobert
Nothing like wasting space on this 15 minutes of bigoted hate.

Yeah...

It just upsets me NO end to see examples of this!!!



Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).
Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
 
 
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses
, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).
 
 
President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).
 
 
 
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).
 
 
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).
 
 
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).
 
 
 
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

30 posted on 10/26/2013 4:48:24 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: WilliamRobert
Believe it Free Republic is a force, it is a bastion of free thought and a exchange of conservative ideas.

Unless someone tries to post FACTS about Mormonism.

31 posted on 10/26/2013 4:49:30 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Alex Murphy

Is that a BEEHIVE on his head???


32 posted on 10/26/2013 4:50:14 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
They believe in an outer darkness, which may or may not even be permanent, followed up with 3 levels of heaven, where the vast majority of mankind will go, with only the Mormons going to the Celestial Heaven where they will become gods of their own planets and dwell in the presence of God.

WRONG!!!!

Only about 15% or so of ALL Mormons will be there.

The rest are Unworthy for one reason of another.

If you wanna get in on the Forever Family® offer, then you'd best make SURE that ALL of your family has the quite valued Temple Recommend© or else NONE of them do!

33 posted on 10/26/2013 4:53:52 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian
One more thing: Reformation Day -- when Luther nailed 95 Theses on the Wittenberg Door -- is Oct. 31.

Now THAT was scary!!!

It put the Fear of GOD into Catholics SO much; that they came up with the COUNTER Reformation!

34 posted on 10/26/2013 4:56:19 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: elcid1970
What about a decapitated SHIZZZZZ on the front lawn?

And, if it came to pass, that you LEFT him there, to moulder on the ground, then in just a few short years, there won't be a trace that even the very BEST archeologists could find!!


 
MORMON
Chapter 6

The Nephites gather to the land of Cumorah for the final battles—Mormon hides the sacred records in the hill Cumorah—The Lamanites are victorious, and the Nephite nation is destroyed—Hundreds of thousands are slain with the sword. About A.D. 385.

1 And now I finish my record concerning the destruction of my people, the Nephites. And it came to pass that we did march forth before the Lamanites.

2 And I, Mormon, wrote an epistle unto the king of the Lamanites, and desired of him that he would grant unto us that we might gather together our people unto the land of Cumorah, by a hill which was called Cumorah, and there we could give them battle.

3 And it came to pass that the king of the Lamanites did grant unto me the thing which I desired. 

4 And it came to pass that we did march forth to the land of Cumorah, and we did pitch our tents around about the hill Cumorah; and it was in a land of many waters, rivers, and fountains; and here we had hope to gain advantage over the Lamanites.

5 And *when three hundred and eighty and four years had passed away, we had gathered in all the remainder of our people unto the land of Cumorah.

6 And it came to pass that when we had gathered in all our people in one to the land of Cumorah, behold I, Mormon, began to be old; and knowing it to be the last struggle of my people, and having been commanded of the Lord that I should not suffer the records which had been handed down by our fathers, which were sacred, to fall into the hands of the Lamanites, (for the Lamanites would destroy them) therefore I made this record out of the plates of Nephi, and hid up in the hill Cumorah all the records which had been entrusted to me by the hand of the Lord, save it were these few plates which I gave unto my son Moroni.

7 And it came to pass that my people, with their wives and their children, did now behold the armies of the Lamanites marching towards them; and with that awful fear of death which fills the breasts of all the wicked, did they await to receive them.

8 And it came to pass that they came to battle against us, and every soul was filled with terror because of the greatness of their numbers.

9 And it came to pass that they did fall upon my people with the sword, and with the bow, and with the arrow, and with the ax, and with all manner of weapons of war.

10 And it came to pass that my men were hewn down, yea, even my ten thousand who were with me, and I fell wounded in the midst; and they passed by me that they did not put an end to my life.

11And when they had gone through and hewn down all my people save it were twenty and four of us, (among whom was my son Moroni) and we having survived the dead of our people, did behold on the morrow, when the Lamanites had returned unto their camps, from the top of the hill Cumorah, the ten thousand of my people who were hewn down, being led in the front by me.

12 And we also beheld the ten thousand of my people who were led by my son Moroni.

13 And behold, the ten thousand of Gidgiddonah had fallen, and he also in the midst.

14 And Lamah had fallen with his ten thousand; and Gilgal had fallen with his ten thousand; and Limhah had fallen with his ten thousand; and Jeneum had fallen with his ten thousand; and Cumenihah, and Moronihah, and Antionum, and Shiblom, and Shem, and Josh, had fallen with their ten thousand each.

15 And it came to pass that there were ten more who did fall by the sword, with their ten thousand each; yea, even all my people, save it were those twenty and four who were with me, and also a few who had escaped into the south countries, and a few who had deserted over unto the Lamanites, had fallen; and their flesh, and bones, and blood lay upon the face of the earth, being left by the hands of those who slew them to molder upon the land, and to crumble and to return to their mother earth.

16 And my soul was rent with anguish, because of the slain of my people, and I cried:

17 O ye fair ones, how could ye have departed from the ways of the Lord! O ye fair ones, how could ye have rejected that Jesus, who stood with open arms to receive you!

18 Behold, if ye had not done this, ye would not have fallen. But behold, ye are fallen, and I mourn your loss.

19 O ye fair sons and daughters, ye fathers and mothers, ye husbands and wives, ye fair ones, how is it that ye could have fallen!

20 But behold, ye are gone, and my sorrows cannot bring your return.

21 And the day soon cometh that your mortal must put on immortality, and these bodies which are now moldering in corruption must soon become incorruptible bodies; and then ye must stand before the judgment-seat of Christ, to be judged according to your works; and if it so be that ye are righteous, then are ye blessed with your fathers who have gone before you.

22 O that ye had repented before this great destruction had come upon you. But behold, ye are gone, and the Father, yea, the Eternal Father of heaven, knoweth your state; and he doeth with you according to his justice and mercy.


 
 
Mormon 8:2
And now it came to pass that after the great and tremendous battle at Cumorah, behold, the Nephites who had escaped into the country southward were hunted by the Lamanites, until they were all destroyed.


35 posted on 10/26/2013 4:59:37 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: SaxxonWoods
I liked America better when people practiced their desired religion and left everyone else alone.

Practice what you preach, and leave US alone!

36 posted on 10/26/2013 5:00:38 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian
(Yet no comment on 80,000 Lds missionary spiritual "busybodies" out & about...knockin' on doors...ringin' doorbells?)

Trick or Treat!!??


 

If you have cable TV, there won’t be much on to watch.


 

 

 

 

If there isn’t much on to watch, you will answer your door whenever someone rings.


 

 

 

 

If you open your door, you will see mormons.


 

 

 

 

If you talk to mormons, they will trick you into “praying about whether something is true”.


 

 

 

 

If you rely on your feelings, you may become a mormon.


 

 

 

 

If you become a mormon, you will have to wear magic underwear!


 

 

 

 

If you wear magic underwear, people will immediately label you as a cultist.


DON’T be a cultist!
Get DirectTV.

37 posted on 10/26/2013 5:02:20 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Dr. Thorne
2. Bloody golden plates that are inscribed with the Book of Mormon in an unknown language


38 posted on 10/26/2013 5:04:01 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Dr. Thorne
5. Bumpersticker that reads "Ask me about my holey underwear"


39 posted on 10/26/2013 5:05:55 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: greyfoxx39
It's POSSIBLE!!!




40 posted on 10/26/2013 5:07:50 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
The "Caractors" are the only tangible evidence in existence related to Smith's story.
No gold plates, no brass plates, no peep stones, no Urim and Thummim...
only these "Caractors," not a single one of which is in the purported languages.



Smith's translation of the Caractors. According to Martin Harris (Joseph Smith - History, 1:64), "I went to the city of New York, and presented the characters which had been translated, with the translation thereof, to Professor Charles Anthon, a gentleman celebrated for his literary attainments. Professor Anthon stated that the translation was correct, more so than any he had before seen translated from the Egyptian. I then showed him those which were not yet translated,* and he said they were Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic; and he said they were true characters."

Speak right up now in all truthfulness. Isn't it revealing how Smith started out making a stab at creating believable "caractors" but quckly gave up and produced nothing but squiggles, ending up wih a series of nothing more than crude little scribbles? Yet Professor Anthon supposedly translated them!

*Harris must have had two or three pieces of paper with him—one with characters and a translation of them (on the same paper or a separate one) and one with untranslated characters—quite likely the "Caractors." Some Mormon "scholars" have gone out on a limb, sawed it off, and knocked themselves out trying to translate from these true Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic characters a segment that would correspond with a verse from 1 Nephi.


Modern-day experts in Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic. In 1829, any knowledge of these languages possessed by U.S. scholars would have been rudimentary at best. Expertise in them has vastly improved since then. So go ahead, do it. Get any modern expert in these languages to identify which of these "Caractors" are Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac and Arabic. Better still, accept the claim of Mormon apologists that Anthon did indeed so testify and that his appraisal of the Caractors was correct. (Op. cit, pp. 73-75)

Save your money! Samples of Assyriac/Aramaic and Arabic writing:



 



What say you? Which of Smith's "Caractors" resemble the Assyriac and Arabic ones? No need to pay experts for their analysis. A child could accurately check this out. These writing systems have remained constant for well over 3000 years.


41 posted on 10/26/2013 5:10:12 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

“....Gidgiddonah, Lamah, Gilgal, Limhah, Jeneum, Cumenihah, Moronihah, Antionum, Shiblom, Shem, and Josh, had fallen with their ten thousand....”

What a veritable FEAST of names the BoM has provided! It’s the SHIZ that keeps on giving!

JS must have held “Name That Nephite!” contests among his followers. Otherwise, how could all these monikers have sprung from the head of just one fortunehunting storyteller?

;^)


42 posted on 10/26/2013 5:20:00 AM PDT by elcid1970 ("In the modern world, Muslims are living fossils.")
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To: Elsie
LOL [Funny-Sad but finally we see a little "truth in advertising!]
43 posted on 10/26/2013 5:23:05 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: elcid1970
JS must have held “Name That Nephite!” contests among his followers. ...that continues to this day!!!



Enjoy!!



http://wesclark.com/ubn/

44 posted on 10/26/2013 6:12:53 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: elcid1970
...that continues to this day!!!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfIehCrO4Zs

45 posted on 10/26/2013 6:15:24 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Geez, naming your Mormon kid Shiz Mosiah Moriancumr would make more sense than most of those names.

And I thought crazy apostrophized names were an “Amish” thing.


46 posted on 10/26/2013 7:24:27 AM PDT by elcid1970 ("In the modern world, Muslims are living fossils.")
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To: Elsie

lol


47 posted on 10/26/2013 1:50:38 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: elcid1970

These would be, no doubt, BIC names.

Those less worthy MORMONs who responded to the missionary effort would have more ‘normal’ names.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Born+in+the+Covenant&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-ContextMenu&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7ADRA_enUS475


48 posted on 10/27/2013 10:59:05 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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