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Religious Sisters File First Class-Action Lawsuit Against Controversial HHS Mandate
Catholic Lane ^ | September 25, 2013 | The Becket Fund

Posted on 09/29/2013 2:30:59 PM PDT by NYer

sisters-of-the-poor

Today, the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty filed a lawsuit on behalf of the Little Sisters of the Poor, a religious order of Sisters dedicated to caring for the elderly poor (see video). Without relief, the Little Sisters face millions of dollars in IRS fines because they cannot comply with the government’s mandate that they give their employees free access to contraception, sterilization, and abortion-inducing drugs. The Little Sisters are joined by their religious health benefits providers, Christian Brothers Services and Christian Brothers Employee Benefits Trust, and a class of other religious organizations facing similar fines, in the first class action lawsuit against the Mandate.

The Little Sisters of the Poor are an international Roman Catholic Congregation of women Religious founded in 1839 by St. Jeanne Jugan. They operate homes in 31 countries, where they provide loving care for over 13,000 needy elderly persons. Thirty of these homes are located in the United States.

“Like all of the Little Sisters, I have vowed to God and the Roman Catholic Church that I will treat all life as valuable, and I have dedicated my life to that work,” explained Sister Loraine Marie, Superior for one of the three U.S. provinces in the Congregation. “We cannot violate our vows by participating in the government’s program to provide access to abortion inducing drugs.”

Although the Little Sisters’ homes perform a religious ministry of caring for the elderly poor, they do not fall within the government’s narrow exemption for “religious employers.” Accordingly, beginning on January 1, the Little Sisters will face IRS fines unless they violate their religion by hiring an insurer to provide their employees with contraceptives, sterilization, and abortion-inducing drugs.

“The Sisters should obviously be exempted as ‘religious employers,’ but the government has refused to expand its definition,” said Mark Rienzi, Senior Counsel for the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty and lead counsel for the Little Sisters. “These women just want to take care of the elderly poor without being forced to violate the faith that animates their work. The money they collect should be used to care for the poor like it always has—and not to pay the IRS.”

The lawsuit is the first of its kind both because it is a class-action suit that will represent hundreds of Catholic non-profit ministries with similar beliefs and because it is the first on behalf of benefits providers who cannot comply with the Mandate.

The lawsuit was filed in federal District Court in Denver. There are now 72 lawsuits challenging the mandate.


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Moral Issues; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: abortion; deathpanels; hhs; lawsuit; obamacare; zerocare
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1 posted on 09/29/2013 2:31:00 PM PDT by NYer
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To: Tax-chick; GregB; Berlin_Freeper; SumProVita; narses; bboop; SevenofNine; Ronaldus Magnus; tiki; ...

The Little Sisters have already stated that, should they fail to be exempted, they will leave the US.


2 posted on 09/29/2013 2:31:50 PM PDT by NYer ("The wise man is the one who can save his soul. - St. Nimatullah Al-Hardini)
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To: NYer

Obama doesn’t care if thousands of poor old people lose a loving home.

Abortion and homosexuality are what he cares most deeply about: abortion because he wishes his mother had one, and homosexuality because he was molested as a child.


3 posted on 09/29/2013 2:35:12 PM PDT by Tax-chick (I'm not crazy ... I'm just not you.)
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To: NYer

**Little Sisters of the Poor **

Definitely wonderful servants of the Lord.


4 posted on 09/29/2013 2:41:29 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NYer

What kind of bastards go after the Llttle Sisters of the Poor?


5 posted on 09/29/2013 2:45:29 PM PDT by mkmensinger
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To: mkmensinger

A homosexual bastard who wishes he’d been aborted. Obama is a sick, sick man.


6 posted on 09/29/2013 2:47:50 PM PDT by Tax-chick (I'm not crazy ... I'm just not you.)
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To: NYer

7 posted on 09/29/2013 3:29:04 PM PDT by CivilWarBrewing
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To: NYer

"Let 'em leave. We've got plenty of places to take care of them!"


8 posted on 09/29/2013 3:34:30 PM PDT by COBOL2Java (I'm a Christian, pro-life, pro-gun, Reaganite. The GOP hates me. Why should I vote for them?)
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To: NYer

Go, sisters!
This administration actively wants to force Catholics to choose between their principles and their job.


9 posted on 09/29/2013 3:54:53 PM PDT by I want the USA back (Media: completely irresponsible traitors. Complicit in the destruction of our country.)
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To: mkmensinger
What kind of bastards go after the Llttle Sisters of the Poor?


10 posted on 09/29/2013 3:58:59 PM PDT by workerbee (The President of the United States is DOMESTIC ENEMY #1)
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To: NYer; metmom; Elsie; CynicalBear; boatbums; jodyel; Alex Murphy; WVKayaker; Iscool; ...

I hope all of our protestant FRiends are taking careful note of this. If the Catholic Church loses this battle, each of your groups is nest on the pResidents hit list. there isn’t a Christian/ religious group that will be able to stand up to the assault of his minions.


11 posted on 09/29/2013 4:10:48 PM PDT by verga (Lasciante ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate.)
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To: verga

The kind of people who can’t stop badmouthing Mother Teresa won’t lift an eyebrow over the expulsion of the Little Sisters of the Poor.


12 posted on 09/29/2013 4:29:13 PM PDT by Tax-chick (I'm not crazy ... I'm just not you.)
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To: Tax-chick

In their view, religion somehow does include serving others. This even though the early Christians were thought remarkable for doing what no pagan would. The idea is that the state must utterly displace the church as a society.


13 posted on 09/29/2013 4:52:23 PM PDT by RobbyS (quotes)
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To: RobbyS

It befuddles me.


14 posted on 09/29/2013 4:53:16 PM PDT by Tax-chick (I'm not crazy ... I'm just not you.)
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To: verga

quite a few of us are taking note.


15 posted on 09/29/2013 4:57:55 PM PDT by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: Tax-chick

It has always been part of the Enlightenment project. After Virginia disestablished the Anglican Church, it caused a disruption of social services in Virginia, which were organized around the parishes. This did prevent a Baptist from having to support the Church, but it also deprived many people of the help which his own meeting house lacked the means to provide,because they received no funds either. Patrick Henry had wanted to supply all the denominations, but Jefferson none of them, and the state was slow to fill the gap.


16 posted on 09/29/2013 5:03:03 PM PDT by RobbyS (quotes)
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To: Tax-chick; verga
The kind of people who can’t stop badmouthing ...

Do you mean people that make gratuitous remarks like yours?

I see a lot of that from the Roman Catholic horde! Too many love their church, but don't know that they are just following men... and worshipping dead people like Mary and their saints.

Galatians 1: 3 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, 4 who gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, 5 to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

10 Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ. ...

17 posted on 09/29/2013 5:18:32 PM PDT by WVKayaker ("The only place that the left hasn't placed the blame is on their agenda..." -Sarah Palin)
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To: NYer

You don’t ‘file suit’; you just say NO!


18 posted on 09/29/2013 5:18:37 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: WVKayaker

If you have something ugly to say about Mother Teresa, then I was talking about you. If you don’t, then I wasn’t.

What is it with people’s reading comprehension these days?


19 posted on 09/29/2013 5:19:26 PM PDT by Tax-chick (I'm not crazy ... I'm just not you.)
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To: verga
If the Catholic Church loses this battle, each of your groups is nest on the pResidents hit list. there isn’t a Christian/ religious group that will be able to stand up to the assault of his minions.

You SURE??

You REALLY think that if the All-Powerful Oz fails; so will Dorothy and her friends?

20 posted on 09/29/2013 5:20:17 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: RobbyS

I remember reading about the Patrick Henry/Thomas Jefferson flap over the churches, but the details have slipped my mind. Zot, I’m getting old. I was trying to tell my son about Ross Perot the other day, and I couldn’t remember the name. I kept saying, “It wasn’t Frank Perdue ... it was ... whatshisname!”

Bill looked it up on his phone, but he still didn’t recognize the name.


21 posted on 09/29/2013 5:21:39 PM PDT by Tax-chick (I'm not crazy ... I'm just not you.)
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To: Tax-chick; verga
What is it with people’s reading comprehension these days?

"These days", I comprehend just fine, thanks! I don't speak ugly about people, just post Scriptural answers to errors in adopted doctrines of devils. It is my obligation as a Christian to reveal Christ, not a sefl-annointed church, as THE ONLY source of our salvation. If that doesn't apply to you, then sorry for any offense.

I wasn't reading the thread until I was pinged with a snark. Paul snarked about your beloved Peter, when he was trying to make Christians act like the unsaved...

Galatians 2: ... 4 This matter arose because some false believers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves. 5 We did not give in to them for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you.

6 As for those who were held in high esteem—whatever they were makes no difference to me; God does not show favoritism—they added nothing to my message. 7 On the contrary, they recognized that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised. 8 For God, who was at work in Peter as an apostle to the circumcised, was also at work in me as an apostle to the Gentiles. 9 James, Cephas and John, those esteemed as pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcised. 10 All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I had been eager to do all along.

11 When Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. 13 The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray. ...

22 posted on 09/29/2013 5:28:43 PM PDT by WVKayaker ("The only place that the left hasn't placed the blame is on their agenda..." -Sarah Palin)
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To: WVKayaker

You comprehend?

LOL! The truth hits you in the face every day here, and you still don’t comprehend. Maybe you are so indoctrinated and propagandized into your non-Catholic views that you aren’t open to anything else — is that it?


23 posted on 09/29/2013 5:32:29 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: WVKayaker

If I may correct you, Catholics do not worship dead people or the Virgin Mary. We pay Mary homage as the mother of Jesus and endear to her as we would our own mother. We worship God alone. We pray to saints to ask their intercession for our prayers.


24 posted on 09/29/2013 5:38:03 PM PDT by NoKoolAidforMe (I'm clinging to my God and my guns. You can keep the change.)
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To: WVKayaker

I didn’t ping you. I didn’t reference you, all-unknown, unless you have something ugly to say about Mother Teresa.

Do you, or don’t you?

(This is what they call in the IT industry a “binary switch.”)


25 posted on 09/29/2013 5:51:20 PM PDT by Tax-chick (I'm not crazy ... I'm just not you.)
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To: Elsie
Let me see if I can put it more plainly for you:

The Catholic Church is far larger than any protestant denomination. It has more members, a top down organization, and a dedicated group of vowed priests and religious.

There is no other denomination that has that well-organized or deep a bench to fight a legal and political battle.

The Episcopalians used to have the money and influence (although not the numbers, ever) but they have been coopted by the Dark Side and are bleeding money and membership. Ditto the Methodists, at least the national organization.

The Presbyterians have game, but they are splintered. The Baptists do not have the necessary level of organized authoritative leadership (except possibly the SBC, but it's mostly influential in the (wait for it) South).

If this administration wins its battle with the Catholics, then your denomination (whatever it is) is doomed. No other group has the wherewithal to fight the U.S. government.

So you would do well to cut out the snarking and support the fight.

26 posted on 09/29/2013 6:06:06 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ecce Crucem Domini, fugite partes adversae. Vicit Leo de Tribu Iuda, Radix David, Alleluia!)
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To: Salvation; NoKoolAidforMe
...you still don’t comprehend. Maybe you are so indoctrinated and propagandized into your non-Catholic views that you aren’t open to anything else — is that it?-sally

Maybe you are so indoctrinated and propagandized into your Catholic errors that you aren’t open to anything else — is that it?

We pay Mary homage... -koolaidallday

Pot-a-to, pot-ah-to

venerate -
1620s, from L. veneratus, pp. of venerari "to reverence, worship" (see veneration). Related: Venerated, venerating.

Here's a quick answer that you may explore more fully.

"I personally believe that when some people start praying to dead saints instead of going direct to God the Father, I think they may actually be hurting God’s feelings."

"Here God is, sitting up in heaven, only wanting to help us in this life – and then all of a sudden He sees one of His own going direct to a dead saint who has no supernatural power on his own to answer any part of their specific prayer request. However, I know He knows that many of His people do it out of ignorance because they really do not know what the Bible says about all of this, and they do not understand how the big picture is all set up."

bible-knowledge.com -full article

27 posted on 09/29/2013 6:14:39 PM PDT by WVKayaker ("The only place that the left hasn't placed the blame is on their agenda..." -Sarah Palin)
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To: WVKayaker; Salvation

So, have you hated Catholics all of your life or was there some life-changing event that made you this way? Or are you a Unitarian?

“I am the Lord your God. You shall not have other gods beside me.” The First Commandment


28 posted on 09/29/2013 6:24:47 PM PDT by NoKoolAidforMe (I'm clinging to my God and my guns. You can keep the change.)
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To: NoKoolAidforMe
So, have you hated Catholics all of your life...

I did not say anywhere that I hate Catholics! You are blaspheming me. You state facts, not in evidence.

I am a Christian, saved by the Grace of God through Jesus Christ. No church can be an arbiter for God. I hate what Catholicism teaches in error and will continue to post the truths found in Scripture!

2 Timothy 3 : ... 10 You, however, know all about my teaching, my way of life, my purpose, faith, patience, love, endurance, 11 persecutions, sufferings—what kinds of things happened to me in Antioch, Iconium and Lystra, the persecutions I endured. Yet the Lord rescued me from all of them. 12 In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, 13 while evildoers and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

29 posted on 09/29/2013 6:33:15 PM PDT by WVKayaker ("The only place that the left hasn't placed the blame is on their agenda..." -Sarah Palin)
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To: AnAmericanMother; Elsie
Let me see if I can put it more plainly for you: ...


30 posted on 09/29/2013 6:36:38 PM PDT by WVKayaker ("The only place that the left hasn't placed the blame is on their agenda..." -Sarah Palin)
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To: Tax-chick
I didn’t ping you. I didn’t reference you, all-unknown ...

No, you did not ping me. But, you responded by a post from a Catholic snarking at Protestants. I am a Protestant, so you were making a reference to me, with your qualifier. Of course, the qualifier was a snark all by itself, and your saint had nothing to do it.

God also gave me a good mind and His Holy Spirit which indwells me to guide me into all truth!

1 Thessalonians 4: 13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

- With love, Paul

31 posted on 09/29/2013 6:50:49 PM PDT by WVKayaker ("The only place that the left hasn't placed the blame is on their agenda..." -Sarah Palin)
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To: WVKayaker

I can only blaspheme God, not you. Your own words imply that you believe that Catholics worship dead people which is not true. If you will not listen to a Catholic correct your misconceptions of my faith, I see no need to continue what is a futile dialogue. If you wish to be enlightened about what Catholics believe, you can read the Catechism. Otherwise, have a wonderful evening.


32 posted on 09/29/2013 6:52:23 PM PDT by NoKoolAidforMe (I'm clinging to my God and my guns. You can keep the change.)
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To: WVKayaker

No, actually, I was making a remark about people who badmouth Mother Teresa. If that’s not you, Zot only knows why we’re making this exchange at this hour. You feel you have to defend people like that?

If that is you, bleep bleep blankety blank expletive and a yazoo-hoo-hoo to you too, but I’ll make you a casserole if you’re sick or something.


33 posted on 09/29/2013 6:54:36 PM PDT by Tax-chick (I'm not crazy ... I'm just not you.)
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To: NoKoolAidforMe

Thank you.


34 posted on 09/29/2013 6:54:56 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NoKoolAidforMe
If you wish to be enlightened about what Catholics believe, you can read the Catechism.

I know what Catholics believe.

See my post above concerning dead people... 1 Thessalonians!

Genesis 3: 1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”

4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it.

Poison fruit kills souls! The Catholic Church is teaching a lot of poison from man-made tradition. Rat poison is 90% good food, and the other 10% will kill you dead!

Dead Christians are asleep until Christ comes back to call us all!

35 posted on 09/29/2013 6:59:26 PM PDT by WVKayaker ("The only place that the left hasn't placed the blame is on their agenda..." -Sarah Palin)
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To: WVKayaker

Happy birthday, WVKayaker!


36 posted on 09/29/2013 7:01:09 PM PDT by mlizzy (If people spent an hour a week in Eucharistic adoration, abortion would be ended. --Mother Teresa)
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To: WVKayaker

I hope all of our protestant FRiends are taking careful note of this. If the Catholic Church loses this battle, each of your groups is nest on the pResidents hit list. there isn’t a Christian/ religious group that will be able to stand up to the assault of his minions.


37 posted on 09/29/2013 7:12:13 PM PDT by verga (Lasciante ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate.)
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To: Elsie
You SURE??

You REALLY think that if the All-Powerful Oz fails; so will Dorothy and her friends?

You take out the big fish and all the rest fall into line. You need to study some military strategy.

38 posted on 09/29/2013 7:15:11 PM PDT by verga (Lasciante ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate.)
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To: WVKayaker
I wasn't reading the thread until I was pinged with a snark.

This was not a snark.

39 posted on 09/29/2013 7:16:35 PM PDT by verga (Lasciante ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate.)
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To: Tax-chick
Zot only knows why we’re making this exchange at this hour....

I'm living in the Philippines now and it's 10AM. I am a servant of God here. According to Scripture, I am also a saint, as is any saved person.

Thanks for the casserole offer. Anything but squash! ;>)

1 Timothy 3: ... 3b .. so that you may command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer 4 or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work—which is by faith. 5 The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6 Some have departed from these and have turned to meaningless talk. 7They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.

8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, ...

40 posted on 09/29/2013 7:19:08 PM PDT by WVKayaker ("The only place that the left hasn't placed the blame is on their agenda..." -Sarah Palin)
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To: Tax-chick

Oh my goodness. Maybe it is the fact that it’s late and I should be in bed or maybe you truly are just that hilarious. Your bleep bleep blankety blank expletive made me laugh so hard I cried. Such an excellent response! :0)


41 posted on 09/29/2013 7:22:27 PM PDT by samiam1972 ("It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."-Mother Teresa)
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To: WVKayaker
Cute lemmings, but beside the point.

You really don't understand the strategic issue here. If your brothers and sisters in the Catholic Church are defeated, your denomination will fall and will not even be noticed in the general wreckage.

" . . . and if you cut them down – and you're just the man to do it – do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then?"

Two small points in the general misinformation:

If you really think all the saints are just dead people, then when Moses and Elijah appeared with Christ at the Transfiguration, they were just dead people?

And you cannot be blasphemed against - you are not God (whatever you may think.)

42 posted on 09/29/2013 7:35:36 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ecce Crucem Domini, fugite partes adversae. Vicit Leo de Tribu Iuda, Radix David, Alleluia!)
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To: Tax-chick

Jefferson and even Madison were more Jacobin that we like to remember. They thought all the horror stories about the Revolution was British propoganda. Jefferson would not believe even a friend of his who had remained in France and, I think, had married a Frenchwoman. His attitude toward France was a bit like that of the Trotskites in America with regard to the USSR. It was all Napoleon’s fault. Never mind that the lopping off of aristocratic heads was not the whole of it. Three hundred thousand are supposed to have died in the civil war in the Vendee. And that was only the biggest of the uprisings.


43 posted on 09/29/2013 8:14:36 PM PDT by RobbyS (quotes)
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To: AnAmericanMother
You really don't understand the strategic issue here.

I understand everything that is at stake. I'm not the one preaching church, church, church...

Ephesians 6: 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

*****

... and you're just the man to do it – do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then?"

Ephesians 6: 14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

*****

blasphemy
early 13c., from O.Fr. blasfemie "blasphemy," from L.L. blasphemia, from Gk. blasphemia "a speaking ill, impious speech, slander," from blasphemein "to speak evil of." Second element is pheme "utterance" (see fame); first element uncertain, perhaps related to blaptikos "hurtful,"

They're dead, Jim. You can't show Scripture that refutes that statement, just "traditions of men"! For reference, please read my previous posts on this thread.

Sorry, but you are not a winner this time. Try again later.

44 posted on 09/29/2013 8:20:05 PM PDT by WVKayaker ("The only place that the left hasn't placed the blame is on their agenda..." -Sarah Palin)
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To: AnAmericanMother

They have swallowed Luther’s scheme of salvation but are not even aware that they are accepting this theory because they do not call themselves Lutheran and/or reject his form of religiosity..


45 posted on 09/29/2013 8:21:25 PM PDT by RobbyS (quotes)
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To: NYer

The kayaks are drowning in their own sewage.


46 posted on 09/29/2013 8:22:07 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: WVKayaker

They are physically dead. That’s a fact, but if they are spiritually alive then they are not “dead.” If they were saints on earth, they remain saints in heaven.


47 posted on 09/29/2013 8:26:16 PM PDT by RobbyS (quotes)
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To: verga
I hope all of our protestant FRiends are taking careful note of this

You have protestant friends?

48 posted on 09/29/2013 8:46:55 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Just a common, ordinary, simple savior of America's destiny.)
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To: RobbyS
I am a saint on earth, does that mean I am alive in heaven?

How can you not understand Scripture? It clearly says they are ASLEEP and will only come awake when Christ returns. I won't repeat the same Scripture already posted twice.

Your Catholic teachers tell you that we are all saints according to Scripture, but some "saints' are better than others, so they are "beatified"! That is blasphemous on it's face, and heretical at it's core.That site makes the claim that it is better to pray to those saints, since they are physically closer to God. Haven't they heard about the Holy Spirit? Don't they know that when two or three are gathered together, he is among us? Don't you understand that God is omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient? God is a spirit, Scripture tells us, and those that worship Him must worship him in spirit and in truth... You can look that up yourself!

We do not seem to be worshiping the same God, if your God has such limitations. I am wasting my time here, so I won't bother you again. Feel free to keep in your faith, but it is your faith in a manmade organization that you think will save you...

They're dead (sleeping), Jim! They aren't out walking in the streets of Heaven just yet! 1 Thess 4

49 posted on 09/29/2013 9:23:36 PM PDT by WVKayaker ("The only place that the left hasn't placed the blame is on their agenda..." -Sarah Palin)
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To: mlizzy
Thanks, Liz...

It's already over here. It's Monday 12 hours before the east coast of the USofA. But, I enjoyed the day.

50 posted on 09/29/2013 9:26:27 PM PDT by WVKayaker ("The only place that the left hasn't placed the blame is on their agenda..." -Sarah Palin)
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