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An EWTN Event: Don't Miss "The War of the Vendee"
EWTN ^ | Michelle Laque Johnson

Posted on 09/25/2013 1:54:55 PM PDT by NYer

Navis Pictures Producer Jim Morlino was looking for a story for his next film when a friend gave him a book with a story about a little known war in an area of Western France known as the Vendee - a story that he believed would be especially compelling to modern day Catholics.

"More than just compelling, the magnitude of the story of the French Revolutionary Government's war against the Catholic Church, and the fact that these events were virtually unknown to most of the world, I found shocking," said Morlino. "How could a war which lasted for years, resulted in the deaths of as many as a quarter of a million people, included acts of state-sponsored genocide, and yet ultimately resulted in the restoration of freedom for the Catholic Church in France have been so totally ignored by historians? I was hooked."

You will be too when EWTN airs Morlino's 90-minute film "The War of the Vendee" at 9:30 p.m. ET, Wednesday, Sept. 25, with an encore at 8 p.m. ET, Saturday, Sept. 28. Morlino's films are shot using all child actors! What follows is a short Q&A with the producer. You can hear more when Morlino guests on "EWTN Live" with Fr. Mitch Pacwa at 8 p.m. ET, Wednesday, Sept. 25 - just prior to the World Premiere of this new movie!

How did you research the concept?
Morlino said he researched the War by reading a number of books including "A French Genocide" by Reynald Secher, "For Altar and Throne" by Michael Davies, "The Guillotine and the Cross" by Dr. Warren Carroll, and "Citizens" by Simon Schama.

"The more I read, the more I realized what a timely and pressing issue this was for us here in America. The assault against the freedom of the Church, and the persecution of believing Catholics is not a new story, but one which has been repeated time and again, century after century. But the Faithful deserve to know these stories so as to be inspired by the martyrs, and prepared for whatever may come."

What was the most difficult challenge you faced in making this film?
"One of the greatest blessings we have here in our work at Navis Pictures is, ironically, also one of the greatest challenges: working with children. ... Someone like Peter Jackson or Steven Spielberg doesn't often have to contend with things like a family's summer vacation plans, or Johnny's Little League game, like we do, but therein lies one of the greatest satisfactions for me. We have managed to create a piece of unique, and distinctly Catholic art that is much greater than the sum of its parts, and one that is actually quite moving and effective - especially given the minuscule budget."

What do you hope the audience takes away from this film?
"I hope people (especially older folks like me) are inspired by seeing what young, innocent, faithful Catholics are capable of doing when given a chance. I hope also they learn something about a lost chapter of our Catholic history. But I especially hope a few young Catholics who watch the film are inspired to take their God-given talents all the way to Hollywood someday!"

Anything else you want people to know?
"I think sometimes people see that we've produced a couple of nice films and they think we must be rich. The truth is, we need all the help we can get - just to survive! So, if folks like what they see in this movie, I invite them to consider buying a copy of the DVD to have in their home (the special features are really a lot of fun) and maybe a few more copies to give as gifts. [Purchase "The War of the Vendee" here, http://bit.ly/1guV0Jh.] Please keep us in your prayers, too. This is the only way we can continue making more films. God bless you all!"


TOPICS: Catholic; History; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: anticatholic; catholic; catholicchurch; ewtn; france; frenchrevolution; frz; thewarofthevendee; vendee

Fr. Z's FILM REVIEW: The War of the Vendée


Posted 1 March 2012. Some information may now be outdated.

“They have killed our temporal king. Now they want to kill the heavenly king. Who is worth fighting for, and even dying for, if not Him?”

That is a line from the soon-to-be released film by Navis Pictures called The War of the Vendée.

I received a review DVD today and watched it this evening.

Given the professional beginning, with the good score, I was soon scratching my head at age inappropriate actors. They were far too young and, as young actors, they performed, well…. like young actors. I started to wonder how I could write positively about this film. My suspicion that I was missing something of critical importance drove me to the Navis Pictures website, which has as its goal the creation of a new genre of film: Children’s Cinema.

The some 250 young actors in this film are all under 21. This is, therefore, a direct contradiction to the old adage about never working with kids.

I don’t know how it escaped me, but I didn’t know about this aspect of the film before I stuck the DVD into the machine!

Navis, which means ship in Latin, like the Barque of Peter, wants to inspire young people to get into the film industry and other performing arts at a young age, presumably to begin to transform the industry from within. The director, Jim Morlino – yes, like the bishop but not too closely related he tells me – explains his project in a 3 minute video HERE. Great idea!

Once you give yourself over the fundamental point of this project, this genre, you look past the rough spots, and enjoy the production immensely.

I suspect this film will be inspiring to children, both because the story is historically important but also because it is by young people for young people.

The music score was very good. The composer, Kevin Kaska, was top notch (which is one of the reasons why I was puzzled at the beginning by the age of the actors). Kaska orchestrated the music for the Batman movie The Dark Knight, and the The Passion of the Christ. The War of the Vendée is Kaska’s second film as a composer.

If I ever get that three-hour a day call-in talk radio show, I will probably ask Navis for permission to use a clip from for my bumper music.

Of liturgical interest are portrayals of Holy Mass. I was outraged… outraged, I say, to see a maniple on the right arm of the young actor priest! Can you imagine? If people are going to make movies about the old days, why don’t they talk to someone who knows what’s what? And the Latin… mon Dieu! (I’m kidding, of course.) Later in the movie, for Mass before a battle, they get the maniple right… er left…

[UPDATE: I had a note from Jim Morlino of Navis Pictures who wrote: "RE the maniple - scene was originally shot with the correct placement of the maniple (I and many in the film are TLM folk) Due to an error on my part in maintaining "screen direction" for the Mass scene, I had to digitally "flop" the shot, and so, the Maniple appears to be on his right arm...when in fact it was correctly placed on his left arm the entire time. I knew that was going to raise some hackles, but there was nothing I could do about it." No hackles from Fr. Z, Jim. I was yankin' yer chain.]

The age of the actors sometimes made it difficult to know who was intended to be an adult and who was a child. The fact that these were kids, meant that they weren’t using real guns. They had to add effects, but they did a pretty good job. And there is a battle scene that turned out pretty well, along with a “follow the bullet” moment and the death of a good guy.

I loved the bad guy official of the Republic with the braces on his teeth.

Another point is the prominent positive role of the female characters. This is perhaps best captured in the line: “Men of the Vendée, either pick up your weapons now, or we will wield them for you!”

In the balance, the filmmaker and composer and these kids told a good story and they told it well. There were moments of humor, but serious things are presented throughout about Catholic identity, faithfulness, the role of men and of women in life, honor, and the virtue of religion.

It is timely that this film comes out even as governments are today attacking freedom of religion and the Catholic Church. I could well imagine a parish screening with a discussion period before and after, especially talking about contemporary attacks on the Church and our future choices.

We may need inspiration from the men and women of the Vendée again, and very soon.

Here is the trailer:

The disk has French and Spanish subtitles, director and cast commentary tracks, widescreen options and is regionless.

They are giving a 50% discount to customers in France!

And do they need it! This film comes at a time when we need that New Evangelization of which Pope Benedict has spoken.

It is good to see Catholic films being produced by and for young people. The War of the Vendée could introduce children (and their parents) to this important moment in our Catholic history. If there is sometimes a family playhouse feeling to the film, it also teaches about a dark time in our larger Catholic family history about which every Catholic should know. Thus, The War of the Vendée will clue a wider (and younger) audience into that period in France’s bloody history, just as There Be Dragons did to a certain extent about the Spanish Civil War, or Of Gods and Men did about the monks who were martyred in Algeria.

There is a moment in the movie which echos Navis’ “Children’s Cinema” purpose of the film.

A little boy playing a little boy, Remy, is not permitted to attend a meeting of adults (played by boys… it can get confusing). When Remy pouts, his sister (I think) remonstrates with him saying”

“Remy, don’t be so anxious to be older. Can’t you stay young just a little while longer?
“Being young’s no fun. Who wants to be a child?
“I know someone who wants everyone to be like a child. Someone who knows your name and who loves you so much He became a child Himself.”
[She gives little Remy a patch that the men wear. He says:]
“Now I’ll look just like papa when he was my age!”

The film, with its high production values, does indeed look like a grown up film.

I imagine that these kids had a blast making this movie. You and your children will enjoy watching it. They will probably want to be more Catholic.

Will we be as ready and the men and women of the Vendée?

They were willing to fight and even die for the honor of their Heavenly King and Holy Mother Church.

1 posted on 09/25/2013 1:54:55 PM PDT by NYer
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To: Tax-chick; GregB; Berlin_Freeper; SumProVita; narses; bboop; SevenofNine; Ronaldus Magnus; tiki; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 09/25/2013 1:55:15 PM PDT by NYer ("The wise man is the one who can save his soul. - St. Nimatullah Al-Hardini)
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To: NYer

Had it dvr d. Good one


3 posted on 09/25/2013 2:05:49 PM PDT by stanne
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To: NYer

Pong


4 posted on 09/25/2013 2:20:55 PM PDT by Rich21IE
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To: NYer

The Terror’s treatment of the Vendee wasn’t limited to Catholics. At one point, a Republic gendarme was instructed to round up some 37 saboteurs and “enemies of the Republic.” He went down the list of names and dutifully hauled the villians off to the guilloutine. but on the list were the names of several citizens who had either already been slaughtered, had died of natural causes, or had fled the country. No mind to Monsieur le Gendarme: he simply picked up enough citizens to round out the list and supplied them to the executioner. Guilt, innocence, even identity was of no import. They were Vendee and therefore they deserved to die.


5 posted on 09/25/2013 2:26:04 PM PDT by IronJack (=)
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To: NYer

Hopefully, it’s on Netflix.


6 posted on 09/25/2013 2:37:34 PM PDT by Sergio (An object at rest cannot be stopped! - The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight)
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To: NYer

Here are a few worthy French history links:

The Persecution of French Huguenots
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxLSbAo4ztE

Huguenot - Words of the World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOOOym_4t78

St. Bartholomew’s Day massacre
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDrUNhdPjVs

The French Huguenots
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=1017111317225

Lourdes: A Descent Into Darkness
http://www.bereanbeacon.org/articles/sorted/01_On_Catholicism/Lourdes_a_Descent_into_Darkness.pdf


7 posted on 09/25/2013 2:49:29 PM PDT by .45 Long Colt (A sinner can't pay for grace that's free, nor add to work that's complete.)
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To: .45 Long Colt

What Every Catholic Should Know

Every good Catholic wants to please God in this present life and, when life on earth is over, hopes to live with Him forever. It is a noble goal based on personal beliefs about God and how to know Him.

However, noble intentions and personal beliefs about God do not guarantee results—or eternal life.

I urge you to do what I did after 22 years as a Dominican priest: make sure your beliefs have a solid foundation in the Bible. These questions will help you do that.

The link opens a Word doc where you can read the rest. I attempted to post it but the formatting was off.

http://www.bereanbeacon.org/articles/sorted/02_Good_News_for_Catholics/What%20Every%20Catholic%20Should%20Know.docWhat


8 posted on 09/25/2013 2:59:40 PM PDT by .45 Long Colt (A sinner can't pay for grace that's free, nor add to work that's complete.)
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To: NYer

Looks worthwhile. I hope I can see it soon.


9 posted on 09/25/2013 3:09:01 PM PDT by OldNewYork (Biden '13. Impeach now.)
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To: NYer
Balzac wrote a book about this episode titled Les Chouans.
10 posted on 09/25/2013 3:10:24 PM PDT by Publius (To love another person is to see the face of God.)
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To: NYer
Thank you NYer for this, but allow me to play Devil's Advocate, since I am good at it.

While I like the idea and hard work, this looks to have very, very low production values. Why do almost all Catholic and Christian films have such low production values? How many non-Catholics or non-practicing Catholics will see this film? Close to none. Heck, how many practicing Catholics will see it? Very few.

Fr. Z mentions There be Dragons but that film was a huge failure. It lost a lot of money, making Hollywood less likely to invest in future projects like that, and critics hated the story, calling it boring. And it was boring! But also few people saw that film, meaning it will be a footnote to the culture wars, no matter how spiritually powerful it was.

The bottom line is almost everyone who sees this film will already be against the persecution of the Church in the Vendee before they press "play" on their machine. This is preaching to the choir, and instead we need to reach people who would never step foot in a church. How do Catholics and just Christians in general do this in Hollywood? By making a product with a interesting story (not just a spiritually good story, but something which a non-believer would find exciting), good acting, good directing, and so on. Having children actors insures the acting will suffer and the film will not be taken seriously by people who do not already own a whole bunch of Catholic films.

Mel Gibson had high production values on The Passion of the Christ because he was an A list actor for many years and he knows what is needed on films and he knows how to get this done. That is a large part of the reason for the film's success. Yes the film was very powerful spiritually, but the film also had enough money to be made well, and also had people with lots of talent and experience acting, directing, producing, writing, and working as crew members.

Ok, rant over.

11 posted on 09/25/2013 3:29:05 PM PDT by LovedSinner
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To: Publius; NYer

It’s also an element in one of the “Horatio Hornblower” novels.


12 posted on 09/25/2013 3:49:24 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Prioritize!)
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To: .45 Long Colt

So why are you so anti-Catholic if you have a Dominican background?

Hmmm


13 posted on 09/25/2013 3:51:16 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Publius
Balzac wrote a book about this episode titled Les Chouans.

Thank you for that information!! I want to do more research on this aspect of French history. Both my triple great grandparents were killed in the Franco-Prussian war. Their son, my great great grandfather, was orphaned and adopted by sailors who took him aboard their ship, enrolling him in schools as the traveled around the Mediterranean. In the process, he learned 7 languages. As an adult, he served as a translator in the Irish Royal Court. When he and his Irish wife immigrated to the US around 1870, however, the only housing they could find as catholics, was in the Hell's Kitchen section of NYC. He struggled to find employment. Persecution takes many forms.

14 posted on 09/25/2013 4:00:46 PM PDT by NYer ("The wise man is the one who can save his soul. - St. Nimatullah Al-Hardini)
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To: NYer

It’s a good novel, and the first novel of his “Human Comedy” series.


15 posted on 09/25/2013 4:02:07 PM PDT by Publius (To love another person is to see the face of God.)
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To: NYer
The best novel about the Franco-Prussian War is Le Debacle by Zola.
16 posted on 09/25/2013 4:03:46 PM PDT by Publius (To love another person is to see the face of God.)
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To: Salvation

Perhaps because he is now a born again, Spirit filled believer in Christ?

Just sayin’!

Not rocket science. :)


17 posted on 09/25/2013 4:10:02 PM PDT by jodyel
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To: jodyel

You wouldn’t understand. It’s about the Sacrament of Holy Orders where he was filled with the Holy Spirit.


18 posted on 09/25/2013 4:14:49 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: jodyel

Oh, and I don’t think I was talking with you — I was talking with someone else.


19 posted on 09/25/2013 4:15:19 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NYer

thanks for the heads up, i’ll be sure to watch it.


20 posted on 09/25/2013 4:28:05 PM PDT by Coleus
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To: Salvation

I think this time, salvation, you are in for a BIG surprise!


21 posted on 09/25/2013 4:31:17 PM PDT by jodyel
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To: Salvation

Believers know believers. :)


22 posted on 09/25/2013 4:31:47 PM PDT by jodyel
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To: Salvation

I don’t have a Domincan background. I didn’t write that piece. It was written by a former Domincan priest who came to know Christ and now ministers to Catholics and others about the history and theology of Rome.

I’m a Baptist with lots of very lost Catholic relatives. Telling Catholics the biblical truth about Christ is the precise opposite of anti-Catholicism. If I didn’t care I wouldn’t bother. I know you may not grasp that, but it’s true.


23 posted on 09/25/2013 4:37:40 PM PDT by .45 Long Colt (A sinner can't pay for grace that's free, nor add to work that's complete.)
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To: NYer

Saw this at a special screening attended by Jim Morlino (the director) as well as several of the young stars.

What a terrific little picture this is! I highly recommend it — especially for the kids!

Regards,


24 posted on 09/25/2013 4:56:22 PM PDT by VermiciousKnid (Sic narro nos totus!)
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To: NYer
Ann Barnhardt did a lecture on the Vendee and it's posted on her Youtube site.
25 posted on 09/25/2013 5:03:13 PM PDT by rabidralph
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To: .45 Long Colt
"Telling Catholics the biblical truth about Christ is the precise opposite of anti-Catholicism. If I didn’t care I wouldn’t bother."

I think I understand -- and appreciate --- the caring you are talking about.

I live here in Upper East Tennessee where Catholics are about 2% of the population, and there's a vast wealth of Baptists and non-denoms. Through homeschooling and pro-life I've come in contact with a number of mission-minded Evangelicals who (a little short on knowledge but by no means lacking in goodwill) wished to earnestly share the Gospel and possibly lead me away from the errors and oddities of Rome.

We get door-to-door Adventists and Mormons, too, all sincerely solicitous for my soul.

I like and enjoy them all, actually. I respect, precisely, their concern, which indicates an impulse of generosity on their part.

We really ought to compete in courtesy and honor, in kindness and prayer. That won't hurt any of us, and will please our Master for sure.

26 posted on 09/25/2013 5:51:46 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("They help each other and say to their companions, 'Be strong!' " — Isaiah 41:6)
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To: Salvation

He is mentioning that Famous Anti - Catholic priest from the bereans.. I think you posted about him. I have seen his videos. He looks like a man who is on prescription pills. He is a spooky looking and talking person. I suspect heavy drugs. From a doctor. I truly believe he had a nervous breakdown especially when he says he never read the bible which is a lie if He was a priest. As you and I know we read the bible at every mass especially a priest for every mass day seven days a week. It is astounding how it keeps going on and on with these lies. It is the infamous Richard Bennet. Rofl. Total joke the way this poor man is used. Cheers!!!


27 posted on 09/25/2013 6:03:07 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: NYer

It’s excellent.


28 posted on 09/25/2013 6:11:55 PM PDT by AliVeritas (Pray/Penance. Isa 5:18-21,10:1-3 "Tempus faciendi, Domine, dissipaverunt legem tuam")
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To: Salvation

I did understand perfectly and knew he was born again and so was the former Dominican priest. But I should not have taken such obvious glee in it, so I apologize for that.

Sometimes it is hard not to gloat a little bit when you have a small victory over Satan, and mind you, salvation, it is Satan and his corrupted Catholic doctrine we are aiming at....not you, never you. I hope you understand that.

Ephesians 6:12
King James Version (KJV)

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.


29 posted on 09/25/2013 6:20:51 PM PDT by jodyel
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To: jodyel
Well, I notice your evident good will. I love Catholic doctrine: I love Catholicism in theory and in practice --- and I love Our Lord Jesus Christ --- and I consider it my pleasure to love you, too.

Sounds a little soppy and indiscriminate, I know, but I'm overcoming a few of my lifelong faults a little at a time, by God's grace, and slowly getting the hang of it :o)

30 posted on 09/25/2013 6:35:25 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("They help each other and say to their companions, 'Be strong!' " -- Isaiah 41:6)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

I like all my faults and think they stand me in good stead most of the time...can’t remember when now, but must have been sometime. lol

I think therein lies the problem with Catholic doctrine....it would never appeal to me even were I not born again as it is just too friggin’ much work and stuff to remember. No way!

But for those that like that kinda stuff, it must be very appealing....with all it’s love and light and kindness and goodness and such...but all that stuff keeps you away from the real Jesus, and that is exactly what Satan wants.

You guys are so busy running and doing and all the other stuff Catholics do and trying to remember all they need remember that there is no time for truth.

I always say unless you only want Jesus and are willing to give up everything you hold dear outside of Him, then you really don’t love Him. And that means people (mother, father, sister, brother), religion, anything at all. If Jesus revealed to you the truth of what I am saying, would you/could you leave Catholicism behind? Because that would be exactly what you’d have to do. Think about it.

God bless,
Jodyel


31 posted on 09/25/2013 7:11:28 PM PDT by jodyel
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To: NYer

I saw it. Children and young people playing adult roles. Molino was aiming at drama, not realism. AS you get into it, you forget the ages of the players. But would you not if high school kids put on a Shakespeare performance? The Bard would approve. The play’s the thing!


32 posted on 09/25/2013 8:56:34 PM PDT by RobbyS (quotes)
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To: LovedSinner

The camera work and editing are quite good. The concept is the same as Bugsey Malone, a gangster movies with an all-child’s cast. The novelty will catch the attention of many. Some will ask: what the heck was the Vendee?


33 posted on 09/25/2013 9:03:04 PM PDT by RobbyS (quotes)
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To: jodyel

Make sure that the “real Jesus” is not your own air-brushed photo.


34 posted on 09/25/2013 9:06:31 PM PDT by RobbyS (quotes)
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Comment #35 Removed by Moderator

To: NYer

The book “The Last Crusade” (about the Spanish Civil War) refers to the Vendee and the religious persecution of the French Revolution. Many of the Carlist volunteers from Navarre wore the Sacred Heart patches on their uniforms; those militias secured much of the north while Franco was moving his troops across the Mediterranean in the south.

Viva Cristo Rey!


36 posted on 09/26/2013 3:18:13 AM PDT by kearnyirish2 (The talking heads have admitted is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: jodyel
JOydel,

It is the Catholic Church which taught me to listen to Jesus, and Jesus who taught me to listen to the Church.

37 posted on 09/26/2013 5:36:31 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("If they refuse to listen even to the Church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.")
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To: .45 Long Colt; Salvation; Heart-Rest; Mrs. Don-o
I’m a Baptist with lots of very lost Catholic relatives. Telling Catholics the biblical truth about Christ is the precise opposite of anti-Catholicism. If I didn’t care I wouldn’t bother. I know you may not grasp that, but it’s true.

As a Catholic who shares your love for Christ and His Word, recall Paul's letter to the Romans 15:20-21

Thus I aspire to proclaim the gospel not where Christ has already been named, so that I do not build on another's foundation, but as it is written: "Those who have never been told of him shall see, and those who have never heard of him shall understand."

Your Catholic relatives are saved through the Sacrament of Baptism. If you desire to win souls for Christ, you should consider evangelizing secularists, atheists, agnostics and muslims. There are plenty of fish in the sea in need of your zealous preaching.

38 posted on 09/26/2013 5:45:26 AM PDT by NYer ("The wise man is the one who can save his soul. - St. Nimatullah Al-Hardini)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

As I said before Mrs. Don-o, the Catholic church is so riddled with errors it is not to believed under any circumstances!

And I am not telling you to believe me but to get down on your hands and knees and beg God to show you His truth.

Do you really want to bet your eternal soul on something infallible man has taught you, or do you want to go straight to the Source and ask HIM???

From now on, it is a take no prisoners, no holds barred format for me. I am going to start telling it stronger than I ever have and you can listen or you can turn away...and I hope that I offend every single one of you because if I do that means I am doing exactly what Christ has called me to do.

So get ready!!


39 posted on 09/26/2013 6:26:48 AM PDT by jodyel
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To: jodyel
Lord have mercy! Who micturated in your processed grain breakfast food?

Mrs Don-o is a good Catholic and a good Christian, why are you attacking a fellow believer?

Before you launch on the Church founded by Christ (and which taught its doctrines through the successors of the Apostles from the very beginning, John 20:21 et seq.) you need to *prayerfully* do some reading in the Early Church Fathers, many of whom knew Christ's Apostles personally. There you will find, already present, that which is taught by the Church.

And, by the way, I was raised protestant, but got down on my knees with my family and asked God to show us His Truth. He very clearly led us to His Church, and we all said, "Thank you!" (I might add that Our Lord has a wonderful sense of humor, may His name be praised!)

40 posted on 09/26/2013 9:58:00 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ecce Crucem Domini, fugite partes adversae. Vicit Leo de Tribu Iuda, Radix David, Alleluia!)
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To: AnAmericanMother

Then run on to your Catholic church, Mother, and don’t let me stop you.

As I just told SumProVita, “good” is not the entrance ticket to heaven.....being born again and baptized with the Holy Spirit is. All the “good” in the world gets you not one inch closer to God.

If “good” were the ticket, then I’ve no doubt Catholics would be there because Catholics pride themselves on being “good.” But all your “goodness” is like filthy rags in the sight of God.

And I am sorry if I am shaking up your “good” little Catholic world today, but it is about time someone did!

When any of you decide you want not “goodness,” but Christ and Christ alone, then please hit me up with a PM or post..otherwise what I said here stands.


41 posted on 09/26/2013 10:13:42 AM PDT by jodyel
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To: jodyel
Usual confusion about faith and works.

As I said, before you pontificate on what you think Catholic beliefs are, you need to do some serious reading about what the Church actually teaches.

You are believing the rumors and outright lies that people who hate the Church are feeding you. Go to the source and see for yourself.

42 posted on 09/26/2013 11:23:50 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ecce Crucem Domini, fugite partes adversae. Vicit Leo de Tribu Iuda, Radix David, Alleluia!)
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To: NYer

You are woefully deceived. That’s a lie from the pit of hell. It simply doesn’t square with Scripture. No man has ever been saved by the sacrament of baptism. No man has ever been saved by anything he does. The only way any man has ever been saved in the history of the world is by grace. That’s the message from Genesis all the way through Revelation. The Bible tells us plainly if we attempt to add anything to grace, then grace is of no effect. Cain learned the hard way that God will not accept works of man. And God is the same today as He was in Cain’s day. God changes not.

Scripture tells us that even our righteousness is filthy rags in the sight of God. That means all of your works, even your prayers and your baptism, are full of sin. Why is that? It’s because we, the sons of Adam, are dead in sins and trespasses. When Adam fell he took the whole human race with him. That’s original sin. When you do anything to earn salvation, the wage of that sinful work is death. That’s why salvation is all of grace, from beginning to end.

Ephesians 2:8-9 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves:it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

Galatians 2:16 “yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.”


43 posted on 09/26/2013 11:46:20 AM PDT by .45 Long Colt (A sinner can't pay for grace that's free, nor add to work that's complete.)
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To: jodyel
But for those that like that kinda stuff, it must be very appealing....with all it’s love and light and kindness and goodness and such...but all that stuff keeps you away from the real Jesus, and that is exactly what Satan wants.

What is this loveless faith in Jesus? Does it involve hate and darkness and meanness and evil doing and all that stuff?

44 posted on 09/26/2013 3:32:58 PM PDT by don-o (He will not share His glory and He will NOT be mocked! Blessed be the name of the Lord forever!)
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To: .45 Long Colt
The only way any man has ever been saved in the history of the world is by grace.

Most Baptists believe that baptism in itself does not convey salvation or transformation, but is a sign of what has already happened in a spiritual sense to a new believer. Since it is considered not to bestow "saving grace" or be salvific as such, Baptists consider it an "ordinance" rather than a "sacrament." Being a church "ordinance"—a teaching of the Bible that Jesus intended his followers to observe, it is prerequisite to the privileges of church membership and to the Lord's Supper.

Baptism cannot be separated from one’s doctrine of Christ, since Christ himself was baptized and his redemptive work is depicted in baptism by immersion as a new relationship in Christ which all believers enjoy. The immersion in water signifies Baptism's two main effects - purification from sins and new birth in the Holy Spirit. Peter promised his hearers (on Pentecost) that by Baptism they would receive "forgiveness for your sins" and "the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38).

Baptism forgives all sins (original and personal) and all punishment for sin (Council of Florence). Nothing remains to impede entrance into heaven. Baptism makes the believer an adopted child of God, a sharer in God's nature, a co-heir with Christ, and a temple of the Holy Spirit. By sanctifying grace (the grace of justification), the baptized:

Are enabled to believe in God, hope in him, and love him (theological virtues)
Can live according to the power of the Holy Spirit (the sanctifying gifts)
Can grow in goodness (the moral virtues)
Baptism bestows the whole organism of the supernatural life.

By Baptism "we are members one of another" (Eph 4:25). This Body of Christ transcends all cultures, because "by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body" (1 Cor 12:13).

The baptized have become "living stones." They are a royal nation, a holy priesthood, God's own people (1 Pet 2:9) sharing in the common priesthood of all believers.

45 posted on 09/26/2013 4:27:06 PM PDT by NYer ("The wise man is the one who can save his soul. - St. Nimatullah Al-Hardini)
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To: NYer

Oh me. You have fundamentally misunderstood the Scriptures. I take baptism most seriously. I would probably be a Presbyterian were it not for their teaching on baptism because I’m closer to conservative Presbyterians theologically than I am most Baptists. As much as I believe In baptism, water never saved anyone and it won’t save you. And I will never stop telling Catholics the truth, just as I won’t stop telling Baptists or rank reprobates the truth. There’s no salvation in a denomination. Too many people equate salvation with some steps to take, a decision to make, a prayer to pray. They are all wrong. There is salvation in Christ, and in Christ alone. The modern gospel of most churches is no gospel at all. Satan does his best work in the arena of religion. Some of the most lost people I know are clergymen. They are absolutely blind to the truth.


46 posted on 09/27/2013 9:01:04 AM PDT by .45 Long Colt (A sinner can't pay for grace that's free, nor add to work that's complete.)
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To: NYer
The immersion in water signifies Baptism's two main effects - purification from sins and new birth in the Holy Spirit.

Baptism forgives all sins (original and personal) and all punishment for sin (Council of Florence).

Don't get confused from your church fathers council decisions.

I'm glad to see a Catholic understand baptism, ie the IMMERSION in water...the only Scriptural way to be baptized.

Baptism is a believers way of demonstrating that he is born again, he is a new creature in Christ Jesus.

Baptism does NOT forgive (or purify from) sins, only Jesus does.

That happens at the moment one repents and turns away from their old life, picks up their cross, and follows Jesus.

Then baptism. Jesus has ALREADY wiped away the sins of the believer and made him/her white as snow.

47 posted on 09/27/2013 11:47:39 AM PDT by Syncro ("So?" - -Andrew Breitbart --The King of All Media RIP Feb 1, 1969 – Mar 1, 2012)
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To: RobbyS
Make sure that the “real Jesus” is not your own air-brushed photo.

Love it!
48 posted on 09/27/2013 2:08:53 PM PDT by RBStealth (--raised by wolves, disciplined and educated by nuns.)
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