Posted on 08/01/2013 10:40:10 AM PDT by fishtank
“you mentioned that structures without one part were completely non functional. I showed that you were wrong, without one part, the eye is functional, just not functional as an eye. That means your argument of irreducible complexity is countered.”
You rambled something about the eye evolving from a light-detecting spot, without remarking about how complex even the light-detecting spot is. I didn’t even bring up the eye originally. I brought up how cells attach the P to the ADP. You didn’t tell me what good a half-made light-detecting spot is, or what good a half-made ATP Synthase is, ignoring even the larger process that that particular enzyme is but a part of. And now you’re telling me that you countered something.
“Human point of view: random mutations, purposeful survival.
Divine point of view: Foreseen mutations, foreseen survival.”
Do you propose, then, guided evolution from the divine?
what happens if you reverse the polarity of the gravity field?
Guided evolution would not be something that we could determine. We are unable to get past quantum mechanics.
Whether it is guided or not would not be something that we could determine.
Einstein: “G-d does not play dice.”
Bohr: “Albert! Quit telling G-d what to do?”
Glad you agree that the eye could evolve from a light detecting spot, and that such a spot could be useful, compared to other creatures that did not have such a spot.
“Guided evolution would not be something that we could determine. We are unable to get past quantum mechanics.”
Did you say that just because it sounds fancy? What does quantum mechanics have to do with whether a light detecting spot will spontaneously evolve on the inside of your ass? Do living cells randomly fly apart because of quantum mechanics at any time, at any moment?
Except that all our evidence is that death has existed for millions of years.
Death is the default condition. Life a rare exception, a gift. If you doubt that, I recommend you look up your great great grandparents.
“Glad you agree that the eye could evolve from a light detecting spot, and that such a spot could be useful, compared to other creatures that did not have such a spot.”
I never made any such agreement at all, or any kind of concession at all on the matter. But, in the same spirit, glad to see that you concede to all my points.
“Except that all our evidence is that death has existed for millions of years.”
But, judging from your responses so far, I think your “evidences” are merely assumptions and various assertions that break down when examined under closer detail.
Yes, quantum mechanics predicts that random things happen.
Light is a wave, or a particle, depending on what kind of experiment you perform.
Schrodinger’s cat is either in the box or not in the box, and you don’t know until you look. when you look, it collapses from the state of it being unknown to either being there, or not being there. Until you look you don’t know.
Fossils are found in layers when drilling for oil. The older fossils are at the bottom. The older fossils died, just as the younger ones. The pattern is repeatable every time you drill into that kind of substrate.
So is the prehistoric oil alive, or was it alive until Adam sinned, and after that it died?
“So is the prehistoric oil alive, or was it alive until Adam sinned, and after that it died?”
There have been industrial successes in even converting waste into usable oil within 2-3 days, nor does even the non-artificial processes within the Earth require ages of time to do so.
For example, on the “recent origin of Bass Strait oil and gas”:
“When endeavouring to correlate their vitrinite reflectance and geothermal gradient measurements from the various exploration wells, Shibaoka et al.5 found that the best explanation of differences was disequilibrium caused by recent rapid subsidence of the sediments. However, this disequilibrium not only indicates a recent rapid event, but an incomplete one. Thus, since the sediments are still subsiding, new exinite and vitrinite in the sediments are constantly being carried down into the oil and gas generating zones. As a result Shibaoka et al.5 concluded that ‘hydrocarbon generation must be occurring strongly at the present time with the products migrating relatively rapidly either into traps or to the surface.’ This conclusion is consistent with the facts that (a) the hydrocarbon traps under Bass Strait were full when discovered, and (b) most of the oil in the reservoirs was low in sulphur5 indicating it has not been extensively altered by bacterial or other processes.
The above evidence alone indicates recent rapid burial of the coal-bearing sediments followed by rapid generation of hydrocarbons and very rapid migration of oil and gas into traps. This is clearly contrary to the popular concepts of slowly forming coal bearing sediments and oil formations.”
http://creation.com/the-recent-origin-of-bass-strait-oil-and-gas
“Yes, quantum mechanics predicts that random things happen.”
Sorry, but I’ve never heard of a cell flying apart due to quantum forces. Therefore, I don’t really understand what that has to do with the evolutionary argument.
You wouldn’t hear of it unless there were performed many many experiments designed to detect it. Such is the nature of Quantum Mechanics.
10 E14 experiments anyone? I guess I should submit a grant application!
Good points all GPH - they are also discussed here - See items 12 thru 19 of my original post in #9 of this thread for
101 Evidences for a Young Age of the Earth...And the Universe
Also donmeaker, human DNA is approx 3 billion coded sequences of A, C, T, & G - the number of intelligent [not random] changes required to go from any one life form to any other are astronomical. More molecules [10 to the 40th power] exist in the entire universe than all the time required for anything to macro-evolve at the present observed rates of change. Billions no, not even trillions of years are simply not enough time - evolution is a major facical hoax...
Even Darwin himself claimed if one does not find thousands upon thousands of transitional fossils in the gelogic record then his theory completely falls apart.
Certainly the transitional fossils have been found, as Darwin predicted.
There have been found over 10 homids alone.
Mutation doesn’t occur by molecule, but rather by gene. Further, proteins can be applied to new functions with no change.
By contrast, creationism predicted NO fossils of creatures now extinct, as G-d said “It is good”.
So the fact that water can be created now by oxidation of Hydrogen means that there was no prehistoric water, by your logic.
Right. Sure. Uh-huh.
If you want to assert there was no prehistoric water, then you have to come up with a reason why carbon 14 dating works and doesn’t work. It works on historic artifacts, but you must come up with a reason why it wouldn’t work on prehistoric artifacts.
And then you have to come up with a reason why it aligns so well with other dating methods.
Now I would not, by choice argue with Christians. I find them good people. I would just assert that those who dissent from evolution should have their (odd) beliefs respected, which would mean denying them vaccinations and antibiotics, just as Jehovah’s Witnesses should be denied blood transfusions.
After all, sudden death from minor disease or injury is no big deal right?
LOL.
“forward by Ken Ham!”
Embarrassing.
As Paul Harvey often pointed out - you need to hear “the rest of the story”...
Thousands upon thousands of transitional fossils - 10 hominoids [homids sp?] - really?! Every evolutionary claimed transitional fossil has 1 major problem in that they are fully formed lifeforms - meaning they are not transitional.
Creation has not [nor the Bible for that matter] made any predictions per say but certainly all or the vast majority of creation models recognize that almost all of the fossil record was laid down with Noah’s Flood.
Here is an eye-opening site if you care to read the strongest opposing viewpoints against evolution [part I] and the best hypothesy for creation - the hydroplate theory [part II] - if you care to listen to the rest of the story...
Center for Scientific Creation - In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood
http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/IntheBeginningTOC.html
Also re: the site above Dr Walt Brown PhD does supply a list of 40 or so predictions for his hydroplate theory and yes some have already been confirmed.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.