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Should flower shop be required to serve a gay wedding?
The Walla Walla Union-Bulletin ^ | April 27, 2013 | Bruce Ramsey. The Seattle Times

Posted on 04/28/2013 4:03:27 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

I am troubled by Attorney General Bob Ferguson’s crackdown on florist Barronelle Stutzman, owner of Arlene’s Flowers in Richland, for refusing to make a flower arrangement for a same-sex wedding.

#I’m not arguing here against gay marriage. I voted for it. I’m not even sure that Stutzman has a legal right to refuse the business. Ferguson says that under Washington’s anti-discrimination statute, she doesn’t, and probably he’s right. She might, however, have a superior right under the state constitution, depending on how you interpret it.

#The constitution has nothing in it about freedom from private discrimination. But Article 1, Section 11 does say, “Absolute freedom of conscience in all matters of religious sentiment, belief and worship shall be guaranteed to every individual ...”

#This doesn’t refer to commerce, but in 1889, when it was written, nobody questioned a person’s right not to deal with someone in a matter of commerce. America made an exception to that principle in the 1960s to end racial segregation in the South, where African-Americans could often not eat at lunch counters or rent rooms in motels. Those practices put blacks at a social and economic disadvantage that visibly harmed the race. This pervasive disadvantage was the reason for setting aside the long-standing principle that any business owner could say “no” to a transaction.

#We’ve extended the nondiscrimination principle for 50 years and now arrive at its nether regions. With gay marriage there have been a handful of publicized cases of discrimination — by a wedding photographer in New Mexico, the baker of wedding cakes in Oregon, and now this wedding florist in the Tri Cities. Most of these cases have been about wedding ceremonies. Should a gay couple’s extra hassle in finding wedding professionals matter to the state?(continued)

(Excerpt) Read more at union-bulletin.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Charismatic Christian; Evangelical Christian; History; Mainline Protestant; Other Christian; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: civilrights; gaymarriage; homosexualagenda; homosexualmarriage; lavendermafia; samesexmarriage; washington; washingtonstate
Those businesspeople must be punished for not coming around to the world-view of the Left, no matter if it's constitutional, or not! Can "reeducation camps" be far behind?
1 posted on 04/28/2013 4:03:27 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

As long as I didn’t have to attend I would fix their flowers.

I wouldn’t cater their meals ,because I would have to be there and watching these two fags swap spit would make me puke.

I wouldn’t take their pictures because then too I would have to be there.

But sure I would fix their flowers.Deliver them and get the hell out.


2 posted on 04/28/2013 4:07:29 AM PDT by Venturer
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To: FReepers; Patriots; FRiends
Obama's America....



PLEASE Support Free Republic Today!!!

3 posted on 04/28/2013 4:08:26 AM PDT by onyx (Please Support Free Republic - Donate Monthly! If you want on Sarah Palin's Ping List, Let Me know!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Flowers for ‘gay’ funerals would be acceptable.


4 posted on 04/28/2013 4:08:31 AM PDT by IbJensen (Liberals are like Slinkies, good for nothing, but you smile as you push them down the stairs.)
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To: Venturer

Whatever happened to being to refuse service to someone if you are a business owner? I remember when most stores would refuse to serve someone if they went in shirtless or barefoot. It’s just common decency. Oh yeah I forgot (holds head down in disgust at what has happened to our society)....


5 posted on 04/28/2013 4:11:11 AM PDT by jsanders2001
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To: IbJensen

Sounds like the Westboro Florists.


6 posted on 04/28/2013 4:12:16 AM PDT by sakic
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
FTA: #We’ve extended the nondiscrimination principle for 50 years and now arrive at its nether regions.

And the jokes just continue to write themselves...both with the unintended funny above and the concept that two people of the same sex could actually become married in the true sense of the word, never mind today's invalid re-construct of the concept.

7 posted on 04/28/2013 4:18:11 AM PDT by T-Bird45 (It feels like the seventies, and it shouldn't.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Yes florists should be forced to decorate gay weddings. However they should also be required to only use gay flowers at gay weddings (like halal). And of course, as everyone knows, gay flowers look just like regular flowers except they are 10x more expensive and kinda smell like butt.
8 posted on 04/28/2013 4:20:38 AM PDT by Casie (democrats destroy)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Seems odd that it’s that hard to find a GAY FLORIST who would happily do the job.


9 posted on 04/28/2013 4:21:46 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (The monsters are due on Maple Street)
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To: sakic

I’m hoping you forgot the sarc tag


10 posted on 04/28/2013 4:30:38 AM PDT by surroundedbyblue (Why am I both pro-life & pro-gun? Because both positions defend the innocent and protect the weak.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Yes...soon judges will sentence those not cooperating with current dogma to “classes”.

In these “classes”...folks will be required to “confess” their thoughts, which are deemed “irregular” in regard to the dogma. After “confessing” they will be “freed” to reenter the world, but will have to check in periodically with “counselors” who will require “updates” to see the formally “sick” clients are making sufficient “progress”.

Those not making “progress” will need further “reeducation”.

It’s coming...and there will be “special” camps for former Christians, after their churches are closed.


11 posted on 04/28/2013 4:31:45 AM PDT by kjo (+)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

We are headed in a bad direction.


12 posted on 04/28/2013 4:36:52 AM PDT by exnavy (Fish or cut bait ...Got ammo, Godspeed!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

13 posted on 04/28/2013 4:40:27 AM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight,, he'll just kill you.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I read the article, and unless I missed something, there is no detail/background, other than what the author claims, that explains the florist’s reason for not serving the gay couple’s wedding. Interesting enough - it does reference that the florist had served them before. So, does the florist really have a problem with gay marriage, or is the couple asking for something unrealistic/extravagant/off-the-wall (either in design, price, or method of payment) that the florist is unable to provide as a business person? I’ll admit that I don’t agree with gay marriage, but this article is so lacking of detail about the florist’s refusal that it makes me wonder if the author is purposefully presenting it this way to advance the anti-gay marriage agenda.


14 posted on 04/28/2013 4:51:43 AM PDT by fivecatsandadog (Let's not be so open-minded that our brains fall out.)
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To: surroundedbyblue

Thought the same thing about the post I responded to.


15 posted on 04/28/2013 4:57:03 AM PDT by sakic
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To: Vaquero

Bingo note the worh right.


16 posted on 04/28/2013 4:58:05 AM PDT by Vaduz
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I interviewed the president of the nation’s fifth largest home builder. He said, “I get sued by environmentalists five times for every 100 homes I build. Mostly, it’s about trees. Many times it’s from people who have already moved into their new home and now that they’ve got theirs they want all those beautiful trees preserved. We’ve evolved a new view of property. What’s mine is mine. What’s yours is ours.”

Forcing a private business to perform some service they don’t want to perform is an evolution of serving the public. If we allow this to continue, how can a proprietor not be forced to do virtually anything? Let’s suppose an HVAC installer doesn’t want to do a particular job. He gets taken to court and ordered to. Or, worse, he simply gets a judgment against him and he goes out of business.

I can see forcing a government agency to serve all costumers regardless of whether the clerk at the desk wants to or not. But a private business is private property and the proprietor should be able to decide to pass on a job; regardless of reason.


17 posted on 04/28/2013 4:59:24 AM PDT by Gen.Blather
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The Florist Refused to do the Gay Wedding. So instead lets see whom supports the Gay Agenda - Flowers can be purchased at Target and Walmart. So what is the problem, go purchase themselves and make their own floral arrangements.

Because not everyone supports the Gay Agenda they have to be penalized by an activist judge whom is an actual idiot.


18 posted on 04/28/2013 5:07:24 AM PDT by hondact200 (Candor dat viribos alas (sincerity gives wings to strength) and Nil desperandum (never despair))
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

No. Flower shops should be PENALIZED for servicing gay weddings. We need to go on the offensive and stop being DEFENSIVE.


19 posted on 04/28/2013 5:09:07 AM PDT by ZULU ((See: http://gatesofvienna.net/))
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
But Article 1, Section 11 does say, “Absolute freedom of conscience in all matters of religious sentiment, belief and worship shall be guaranteed to every individual ...”

Anyone with any common sense should know where this whole homo issue is going. "Gay" marriage is NOT about homosexual marriage "rights." The homosexual activists have one goal and that is to prove that their "god" is superior to the Supreme Judge of this world. They want Christians bowing before their homogod "Buttapuss." They want their god to be superior to the Supreme Ruler of the universe.

20 posted on 04/28/2013 6:04:28 AM PDT by missnry (The truth will set you free ... and drive liberals crazy!)
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To: missnry

Simply can’t put up a sign in your shop saying, “We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone”. Guess that doesn’t work anymore.


21 posted on 04/28/2013 6:15:55 AM PDT by DaveA37 (I'm for HONEST government)
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To: fivecatsandadog

I wonder to what degree the ADA has led to this entitlement. Every business must be made to accommodate everyone, even the Harley shop must have handicap accessible ramps though no handicap person can use their bikes. Businesses were defined as public space and therefore must accommodate everyone.
Now we say that businesses must take all comers.


22 posted on 04/28/2013 6:42:30 AM PDT by tbw2
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
I’m not even sure that Stutzman has a legal right to refuse the business.

if you don't have the right to refuse business... then you're a slave.

whether or not i perform my work / services is entirely at my discretion. you can claim discrimination all you want, it doesn't matter. unless American business people are slaves forced to perform their tasks, it's entirely voluntary

23 posted on 04/28/2013 6:51:22 AM PDT by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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To: fivecatsandadog

In a previous article, I read that the florist and one of the gays were friendly - she had served them before. When he came and asked her to do the wedding flowers, she told him she couldn’t and even gave him a hug. She thought he understood why and would take his business elsewhere. Of course, that wasn’t the end of it.

We used to have the right of ‘free association’. No more.


24 posted on 04/28/2013 7:31:56 AM PDT by Twotone (Marte Et Clypeo)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

NO... “We reserve the right to refuse service... no reason required”


25 posted on 04/28/2013 7:40:56 AM PDT by Fully Awake DAV (Navy Vet when homosexuality was not tolerated)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The Sodomites came, saw and conquered. One can even admire the Sodomites over their enemies as at least the Sodomites have beliefs upon which they act.


26 posted on 04/28/2013 7:44:22 AM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The article makes weak arguments, from a weak mind that approves homosexuality.

What more can anyone expect?


27 posted on 04/28/2013 7:46:35 AM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The obvious solution to this is to go ahead and provide the flowers and then vomit through the entire ceremony.


28 posted on 04/28/2013 7:56:29 AM PDT by La Lydia
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“No First Amendment for you!”


29 posted on 04/28/2013 8:02:38 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: fivecatsandadog

Local florist refuses to service same-sex marriage
http://www.keprtv.com/news/local/Florist-refuses-to-service-same-sex-marriage-195500961.html


30 posted on 04/28/2013 9:47:27 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I'll raise $2million for Sarah Palin's presidential run. What'll you do?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

What is constantly attempted is trying to equate this to racial discrimination, in which a person is not served due to his skin color, nationality, etc., but which is an invalid analogy. The florist is not refusing to serve a customer because they are homosexual, but because they want her to help celebrate an immoral homosexual act.

A black florist cannot legally refuse to serve a communist member, but should be allowed to refuse to serve one if he wanted an arrangement for a celebration of Lenin’s birthday.

But as the gov. itself sanctions immorality, here you have the weakness of democracy, which depends upon a populace which is largely controlled enough from within, by God and conscience reflecting basic Biblical morality, so that they need not be much controlled from without by a vast controlling government, and which voters have the moral sense and wisdom to elect leaders who themselves are thus controlled.

For gov. itself must be government, and the people choose what leaders it consists of.

• ...we have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. (From a letter Adams wrote on 11 October 1798 to the officers of the First Brigade, Third Division, of the Massachusetts Militia).ion of the Militia of Massachusetts,” October 11, 1798) More: http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/Quotes_compare.html


31 posted on 04/28/2013 1:27:28 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: sten

While I agree with your central belief, there are circumstances where it becomes murky, at best.

For example, should a sports franchise be allowed to refuse entrance to a paying customer?


32 posted on 04/28/2013 4:57:51 PM PDT by sakic
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To: sakic

if you accepted payment, you must provide the service or refund the payment. basic business.

so yes, a sports franchise definitely has the right to refuse you entrance to an event... BUT... they must also refund the fee they took in exchange.

of course, if they are refusing you due to the fact they sold the seat for more money to someone else, that’s a different problem. they should not reneg on the agreement due to a better offer. that would not be smart business, as people would quickly realize they cannot be trusted to provide the service they advertised as they would sell it from under you

in the situation of a floral shop owner refusing to provide his services to a homosexual couple... that’s entirely up to him. he did not take money nor did he promise services under contract. he is not their slave and he is not obligated to provide services he does not want to provide (one of the perks of having your own company... you’re the boss. YOU decide what you want to do)


33 posted on 04/28/2013 5:35:26 PM PDT by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Homosexual agenda always pushing pushing pushing. They could probably get those flowers in plenty of places, but chose this guy just to push their agenda even further and scare other businesses. They know their actions are repugnant, but their psychological disease is to the need for everyone to applaud their known pervasion and to play lip service to how great their perversion is.


34 posted on 04/29/2013 12:14:55 AM PDT by Seeing More Clearly Now
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To: sten

Your scenario is after the fact. For example, should the Dallas Cowboys be allowed to not sell a ticket to someone based on race or sexuality?

As to the other part of your scenario, teams already withhold enormous amounts of tickets to sell them at higher prices to agencies, with zero negative impact to their business.

On a side note, here in NY, it is illegal for you to re-sell a purchased ticket while it is legal for franchises and agencies to do the same. The game is rigged.


35 posted on 04/29/2013 10:29:42 AM PDT by sakic
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To: sakic

it’s your business. if you decide you do not wish to provide your services to a group, be it based on race, religion, gender, or shoe color, that’s entirely up to you.

if you were not able to decide when, where and to whom to apply your services, then you are nothing more then a slave.

of course, being forced to take the fruits of that labor and putting it towards acts that go against the very essence of your being (tax payer funded abortion mills) makes you little more then a slave

i’m still stuck how to resolve that issue... besides not participating in the economy (ie: shut down business and spend minimally)


36 posted on 04/29/2013 2:44:09 PM PDT by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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