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British lawmakers assured: Catholic royals not required to raise children as Catholics
Catholic Culture ^ | April 23, 2013 | CWN

Posted on 04/27/2013 6:58:41 PM PDT by Alex Murphy

Catholic Church officials in Great Britain have reportedly assured lawmakers that Catholics who marry into the royal family would not be expected to raise their children in the Catholic faith.

During debate in the House of Lords on proposed changes in the Act of Settlement—the law that bars Catholics from the line of succession to the crown—Lord Wallace of Tankerness reported that he had been assured Catholics marrying a member of the royal family would not be held to the usual requirement that their children be raised as Catholics. Citing the general secretary of the bishops’ conference of England and Wales, Lord Wallace said:

I have the specific consent of Msgr. Stock to say that he was speaking on behalf of Archbishop Nichols as president of the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales and can inform the House that the view taken by the Catholic Church in England and Wales is that, in the instance of mixed marriages, the approach of the Catholic Church is pastoral.
“Where it has not been possible for the child of a mixed marriage to be brought up as a Catholic, the Catholic parent does not fall subject to the censure of canon law,” Lord Wallace explained. He indicated that he had been assured that for the Catholic spouse of a member of the royal family, it would be regarded as “impossible” to raise a Catholic child.


TOPICS: Catholic; Mainline Protestant; Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: catholic
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During debate in the House of Lords on proposed changes in the Act of Settlement—the law that bars Catholics from the line of succession to the crown—Lord Wallace of Tankerness reported that he had been assured Catholics marrying a member of the royal family would not be held to the usual requirement that their children be raised as Catholics....“Where it has not been possible for the child of a mixed marriage to be brought up as a Catholic, the Catholic parent does not fall subject to the censure of canon law,” Lord Wallace explained.
1 posted on 04/27/2013 6:58:41 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: Alex Murphy

Let’s raise them Muslim!


2 posted on 04/27/2013 7:02:45 PM PDT by golf lover (goingf)
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To: Alex Murphy

Don’t the Anglicans have more pressing issues to attend to?

Besides, it’s not like any Catholics are close enough to impact succession drastically.


3 posted on 04/27/2013 7:04:32 PM PDT by Shadow44
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To: Alex Murphy

I don’t think this is a good idea. I think if you’re a catholic you just have to accept that your child will not sit on the throne of england, not at this time. Or Jewish or any other religion (besides c of e, obviously).

In fact, I think that stupid Prince Charles should just have renounced the throne and gone off with Camila, but of course, then we wouldn’t have had Prince William and he seems to be a right guy. And that Kate Middleton is really something. She may not be Catholic, but the woman must be a saint, to let her sister look that good as her maid of honor.


4 posted on 04/27/2013 7:05:31 PM PDT by jocon307
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To: Alex Murphy
The English King & Queen stuff is nonsense. I have some respect for the Queen, she is a classy lady, but the very idea of “our betters” deciding for us what we should do is dumb.

As far as religion is concerned, that is an individual decision, we are responsible for our own actions.

There are some historic reasons for the English to have such laws. I will not pursue that line of thought, because I hold all Monarchist in high contempt, Catholic or otherwise.

5 posted on 04/27/2013 7:12:01 PM PDT by Texas Fossil
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To: jocon307
I don’t think this is a good idea. I think if you’re a catholic you just have to accept that your child will not sit on the throne of england, not at this time. Or Jewish or any other religion (besides c of e, obviously).

Except that isn't how it works. There is no clear law to prevent a Jew or a Moslem or a Wiccan (or any other religion) or a Lutheran or a Methodist (or any other Christian denomination) from being King or Queen of the United Kingdom. The law only excludes Catholics and those married to Catholics. Yes, it would be awkward given the Monarch's position of Supreme Governor of the Church of England if they were not a member of the Church of England, but the law does not require that - it simply excludes Catholics and only Catholics.

When the law was made, there were actually reasons for it - conflict between Catholics and Church of England were causing civil wars, revolutions, etc, and it was still the official position of the Catholic Church that the Monarchy of England should be overthrown - but those conflicts gradually ended.

In fact, I think that stupid Prince Charles should just have renounced the throne and gone off with Camilla

He couldn't - there's no power in British law that allows somebody to renounce a claim to the throne. A person can abdicate once they become King or Queen, but they cannot renounce a claim in advance.

From personal experience, the Prince of Wales is far from stupid but he also has a strong sense of duty to hos country - which is why he did not propose marriage to Camilla back in the 1970s - because at that time, he was told that that was not compatible with doing his duty to his country.

6 posted on 04/27/2013 7:14:11 PM PDT by naturalman1975 ("America was under attack. Australia was immediately there to help." - John Winston Howard)
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To: Shadow44
Sure there are ~ if the Brits decided to breed back to the original stock there are thousands of Europeans of the proper heredity ready willing and able to conform to the need.

They actually keep track of one another ~ there's a website run by one of the members of what is called THE FAMiLY. At least some of these people are Catholics.

THE FAMILY has some illustrious ancestors, and some not so illustrious. For example, almost all of them, including all the nobility in Europe, are descended from Gilles de Rais ~ and you'll want to read about him ~ fascinating serial killer. He was part of the house of House of Montmorency ~ Laval. They, in turn, although second only to the Bourbons, seemed to have not had all the money they wanted. One of them, on the Protestant side, married Ann Bot, the last really wealthy Breton left in Brittany after the Religious Wars, and they absconded to England with what must have been most of the gold in Europe.

7 posted on 04/27/2013 7:21:26 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Alex Murphy

I’m sure glad they got that settled. That’s a serious problem.
/s


8 posted on 04/27/2013 7:23:55 PM PDT by Past Your Eyes (Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.)
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To: Texas Fossil
I think hereditary monarchy is a very bad idea unless you cull and selective breed and maybe do a little GMO.

That said, a merit based limited constitutional monarchy might not be that bad for a few hundred years.

It's fairly obvious that a constitutional limited republic devolves into a rabble of feral democracy.

/johnny

9 posted on 04/27/2013 7:25:28 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Alex Murphy

This is nothing new. In a mixed marriage the Catholic spouse is obligated to insist that the children are raised Catholic but if he fails, that does not open him/her to any censure. Whoever marries into British royalty obviously has considered the many implications of such a step, including the peril to the childrens’ souls. May God be merciful in His judgment.

The noteworthy thing here is the Act of Settlement inserting itself like a ghoul at a wedding; whatever good it ever did is now void due to the evident apostasy of the Church of England which has become the laughingstock of Christendom.


10 posted on 04/27/2013 7:26:02 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: Shadow44

They are afraid of us, because they took something from us in the first place. The thief always is worried that the title deed might be discovered.


11 posted on 04/27/2013 7:29:45 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas is a state of mind - Steinbeck)
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To: naturalman1975

Yeah, there was a reason - the civil wars STARTED BY the COE attempting to strip civil rights from Catholics.

I’m sorry, this won’t fly. Catholics are required by the Church to educate their children as Catholics. Why should we accept thin gruel from the Anglicans who don’t have our best interests at hand?


12 posted on 04/27/2013 7:31:21 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas is a state of mind - Steinbeck)
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To: annalex

What ever good was ever intended by it?

It was created to exclude James III and VIII. The irony is that the entire line that was grafted in failed. Then they had to scuttle around and put Germans on the throne rather than their Catholic englishmen.


13 posted on 04/27/2013 7:33:06 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas is a state of mind - Steinbeck)
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To: muawiyah
Gilles de Rais was not the forefather of "all the nobility In Europe" let alone any single European noble we know of.

He had exactly one child, a daughter named Marie, who apparently died without issue.

I'm not sure where you got this notion.

14 posted on 04/27/2013 7:36:27 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: JRandomFreeper
feral democracy

I LOVE that term ... so appropriate in many ways!

15 posted on 04/27/2013 7:38:48 PM PDT by Fast Moving Angel (A moral wrong is not a civil right: No religious sanction of an irreligious act.)
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To: Alex Murphy

Oh, yes, they are. Raising children as Catholics is one of the marital promises made in front of the priest and congregation.


16 posted on 04/27/2013 7:39:04 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: JCBreckenridge
What ever good was ever intended by it?

My guess is, stability as opposed to the country going back and forth with each royal generation. But I am trying to be charitable here, as the Church of England stood for something meaningful back in the day.

17 posted on 04/27/2013 7:43:21 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: naturalman1975

Hi naturalman, good to see you!

Of course, you are right, I actually did know that about the English laws. I’m a little surprised they didn’t forbid the other protestant sects, but I guess they just weren’t worried about that at that time. As for those other “heathen” religions, I’m sure it never crossed their minds that any thing like that could happen.

I still think my original point has validity, they might just have to revisit those laws.

It might be a good time to get that “no throne for allah” down in writing, if you know what I mean and I think you do!

You are kind to stick up for Charles, I’m sure he’s tried to be a good person and no doubt he takes his role seriously (which is more than many, many people do) and he’s raised 2 fine sons through some very hard times. Clearly he loves Camilla and I hope they are happy together.

See - I can be mushy like that.

Good point about “hey, I don’t want to be in line for this job”


18 posted on 04/27/2013 7:43:49 PM PDT by jocon307
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To: wideawake
Typical of the men of his time he left plenty of chillun' all over the place. He had command of an entire army for a good long while.

In the Trial of St. Joanne d'Arc one of the two Johns testifies regarding any desire he felt towards Joanne ~ which was quite a relevant question since the custom of the times was that any woman alone was fair game for any man afoot.

Gilles was a man of his time until he went crazy.

You must not have noted the list of palaces he owned and needed to sell to support his bad habits ~ in their day they were all located where you'd imagine only the highest of high borns would have them ~ particularly those along the Loire.

19 posted on 04/27/2013 7:44:41 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Alex Murphy

England sucks like a vacuum do.


20 posted on 04/27/2013 7:45:17 PM PDT by DManA
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To: Fast Moving Angel
Feel free to use it. I didn't bother to stamp a serial number on it, so there's nothing to file off. Consider it open source under a very permissive GPL.

/johnny

21 posted on 04/27/2013 7:46:18 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: annalex

There was unity. Then the COE divided the nation and they complain that there was resistance to the change the COE imposed on the people.

The COE only valued stability when they were in charge.


22 posted on 04/27/2013 7:47:09 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas is a state of mind - Steinbeck)
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To: muawiyah

I thought Gilles De Rais died without issue, he was a pretty sick pup, so it’s probably for the best.

However, what is the nearest Catholic relative in succession? I think it’s all the way down to the Duke of Kent’s grandchildren, which isn’t really as pressing as it was say in the twilight days of the Stuarts.


23 posted on 04/27/2013 7:47:34 PM PDT by Shadow44
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To: JRandomFreeper
It's fairly obvious that a constitutional limited republic devolves into a rabble of feral democracy.

That has happened because our leaders have chosen to ignore the Constitution. Had we followed what the Constitution says, it would not have happened.

24 posted on 04/27/2013 7:50:22 PM PDT by Texas Fossil
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To: jocon307
I’m a little surprised they didn’t forbid the other protestant sects

They did, but not directly. Among its provisions is The monarch "shall join in communion with the Church of England."

wikipedia

25 posted on 04/27/2013 7:52:24 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: JCBreckenridge

At this point the stolen property is pretty beaten up.

Although the romantic streak in me sees a picture of the ruined monasteries and wonders, “Imagine one day if this was restored to its ancient splendor”.


26 posted on 04/27/2013 7:55:49 PM PDT by Shadow44
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To: JCBreckenridge

Again, I am being charitable to the intent, I do not like the outcomes either.

Here is a pertinent question: does the Church of England tolerate the Lodge, or do they pretend it is not there?


27 posted on 04/27/2013 7:56:29 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: Texas Fossil

Monarchy is a great thing - I am considering going to live in England for that very reason - it provides continuous leadership that isn’t held hostage to polling and pandering. A country with a monarch, who embodies the traditions and values of a nation - doesn’t fall for an Obama or the Kennedy garbage as its political leader.


28 posted on 04/27/2013 7:56:35 PM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: Texas Fossil
Apparently, we were short of rope and streetlights in the 1920s and 30s.

We had plenty of politicians.

/johnny

29 posted on 04/27/2013 7:57:44 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Shadow44

That Canterbury Cathedral looks pretty spiffy.

I pray for that, and their return. Though - they’d probably sell it for a mosque before they’d ever sell it to the Catholics.


30 posted on 04/27/2013 7:58:58 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas is a state of mind - Steinbeck)
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To: naturalman1975

Thank you for writing and posting this - I am sick of the ignorant, stupid comments that are constantly made on this topic. It’s okay to not be informed about this - or about anything else - but then, why oh why opine.


31 posted on 04/27/2013 8:02:24 PM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: kabumpo

Bye Bye hope you like it.

But after living in NY, you might find it an improvement.

My daughter & son-in-law have been to England several times. She told me they have the most expensive and worst food in that part of the world.


32 posted on 04/27/2013 8:03:35 PM PDT by Texas Fossil
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To: muawiyah
There is no record of any bastard children of de Rais - and plenty of his contemporaries who were less famous than he was have left behind lists of illegitimate children.

De Rais' proclivities were not normal - not really conducive to Henry VIII levels of illegitimate fecundity.

Moreover, almost every noble house in Europe can trace their ancestry to at least the eleventh century, some to the eighth.

There are no historical records tracing any of these houses to de Rais, who died in 1440. Name one European noble descended from de Rais - it should be easily checkable.

De Rais was wealthy because he was awarded lands on account of his military accomplishments, being named Marshal of France. He was not the highest of high borns, and was actually disinherited. His remaining wealth and lands were seized by the King, his brother and his cousins.

33 posted on 04/27/2013 8:04:10 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: Texas Fossil

I have been going there since childhood, so I know what it is like. The food can be great if you know where to go, and of course when one has friends, the home food is a diferent story.


34 posted on 04/27/2013 8:07:06 PM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: wideawake
Try Ann(e) Pot ~ she married into the same line of Montmorency ~ and as noble as they were, they didn't hold a candle to her when it came to just raw gold. BTW, there's a map on the net showing where Gillis owned estates/farms ~ all good stuff. It was actually worth something in the post hundred years war era.

Gillis was close enough related to this crowd to be considered an ancestor ~ Ann's the one who ends up in everybody's genealogy ~ and Gillis will be off on a jig on the Montmorency's a mere 20 years earlier. BTW, records generated in France from about 1380 to 1440 are not terribly reliable ~

35 posted on 04/27/2013 8:14:52 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: kabumpo

OK

Whatever makes you happy.

I am not going anywhere abroad. Will be going to the NC in a month or so to see my grandson and let grandma play in the surf with him.


36 posted on 04/27/2013 8:22:20 PM PDT by Texas Fossil
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To: JCBreckenridge

“Yeah, there was a reason - the civil wars STARTED BY the COE attempting to strip civil rights from Catholics”

Complete nonsense. We wont bother mentioning the Catholic Church calling for the assassination of Elizabeth I.

There are a whole variety of reasons why Catholics were increasingly discriminated against. Trying to blame it all on the COE is factually incorrect. Intolerance on both sides was to blame - the Martyrs under Bloody Mary testify to that. Catholics were just as bigoted and intolerant as the COE.


37 posted on 04/27/2013 8:29:28 PM PDT by Scottishlibertarian
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To: Scottishlibertarian

I take it your family doesn’t come from the Jacobites.


38 posted on 04/27/2013 8:35:04 PM PDT by Shadow44
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To: Texas Fossil

“The English King & Queen stuff is nonsense. I have some respect for the Queen, she is a classy lady, but the very idea of “our betters” deciding for us what we should do is dumb.”

Hmmm, somehow you must have missed our current King Obama and his lovely banged Queen Moochelle. Are they not “our betters” whom we are allowing to rule us?


39 posted on 04/27/2013 8:36:57 PM PDT by flaglady47 (When the gov't fears the people, liberty; When the people fear the gov't, tyranny.)
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To: Texas Fossil

Actually, the Church of England should be thrown out and return to the One, True, Catholic, Apostolic Church. The Theology is near perfect (pre-Vatican II, of course) -—the Catholic Church never “evolved” on Jesus’s idea of sodomy and divorce and sex outside of marriage, much less abortion and contraception.

And that idea of King Henry the VIII (who just wanted to validate serial polygamy) is based on pure evil (Satanism).

The Church of England was founded on heresy-—and can not be moral. There was no “God Given Right” to divorce and kill his “ex” wives and have sex validated with numerous women. You can never use human beings as a commodity to be discarded-—and the Catholic Church is the only Church which is consistent on all life issues—and aligned with Natural Law Theory (Science).

You obviously are not a fan of “Leftist Revisited” which actually argues the merits of hierarchy and the need for such a system where uniformity and heresy is nearly (if not) impossible. It is why the Protestant Churches have “evolved” to what Bonhoeffer stated in the 30’s when he visited Rockefeller’s church in New York City——”Religionless Christianity”. The Catholic Canon has been virtually unchanged for over 400 years. There is no “flaw” in their “thinking” as I have studied the Canon. It is pure genius and Common Sense, as G. K. Chesterton stated many times (The man in the 20th century with the most Common Sense).

Interesting that you think individuals can decide their own “Right and Wrong” or interpret “Good and Evil” without the thousands of years of debate and an intense study of history and ideas. (Philosophy/Theology). Return to the “tribal” cultures which never resulted in the “Age of Reason” and the Renaissance? Machiavelli would laugh at that “thought”. Actually, that leads to anarchy every time and only ignorant masses to be controlled by the evil.

Organization of society (as with all animals) must contain an order (hierarchy). It is the Design of Nature. Hierarchy is the most efficient system-—ask any CEO.

With hierarchy (if not corrupted)-—merit-—talent is released and rewarded and uniqueness and excellence is rewarded. All cultures flourish when structured where “roles” are different according to ability.

Radical egalitarianism erases every quality that makes human beings “unique” and “special” (e-quality)-—and dehumanizes everyone. Only a culture where certain people can “rise” to the top-—like cream-—can flourish. Even Athens—who had the first Democracy knew the evil of non-structured societies where everyone is treated the same.

There are no two people who are “equal” . No such thing. So “hierarchies” always occur “naturally” whether you want it or NOT-—so a system which allows such a structure-—could be called the most Natural thing of all-—which, of course, is what the Catholic Church “thinks”.

I think they are correct, like always.

Not allowing their children to be raised “Catholic” is allowing their kids to be ignorant of the Truth.

I am a Monarchist myself, to a degree—although I think the Republic, which is a system which absorbed both Democracy and Monarchy-—is the most perfect for Freedom——when our Constitution and Bill of Rights are not thrown out.

BTW, traditions are necessary for the continuation of a culture. Without traditions, the children never learn about the past. Without knowledge of the past-—children will not “progress”-—they will regress.

Throwing out traditions is the Marxist concept-—so they can redesign human beings-—into this artificial world of no freedom where no one understands the history and past-—so they believe any lie they are told.

Only knowledge of history and the Classics/philosophies gives people the understanding of reality-—so they do not repeat the past. Monarchies create a timeline where history can be organized and understood. There is beauty and dignity in the system-—as long as they are moral human beings (devout Catholics). (Philosopher/King concept goes back to Socrates and he was one profound thinker).

Technically, monarchies are always oligarchies in reality.


40 posted on 04/27/2013 8:37:46 PM PDT by savagesusie (Right Reason According to Nature = Just Law)
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To: NYer

Ping worthy?


41 posted on 04/27/2013 8:39:34 PM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: Scottishlibertarian

OH, so. Catholics were just as intolerant for defending what was theirs?

Who built Canterbury Cathedral. Look at the dissolution of the monasteries where Henry VIII helped himself to everything.

What happened to the Catholic church afterwards? Are you aware that the entire heirarchy in the Catholic church was executed?

Every single one - it took nearly 250 years for it to be restored.

Catholics built it all - Henry took it all away. Catholics fought to keep it and Elizabeth finished them off.

Have you heard anything about the 40 martyrs?


42 posted on 04/27/2013 8:46:21 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas is a state of mind - Steinbeck)
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To: savagesusie
My Baptist Brethren do not claim descent from the Catholic Church. Nor do my friends up the street at the Church Of Christ.

Nor do we endorse the junk theology you mentioned.

You waste the long cut and paste. I will not read them. Never understood how your friends want to argue with people who don't share your opinions. You will never “convince” anyone that way. Only annoy.

43 posted on 04/27/2013 8:47:11 PM PDT by Texas Fossil
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To: Alex Murphy

Bump for later.


44 posted on 04/27/2013 9:26:51 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("I am the master of my fate ... I am the captain of my soul.")
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To: Texas Fossil

I’ll stick my oar in:

“The Catholic and the Communist are alike in assuming that an opponent cannot be both honest and intelligent.”
George Orwell, ‘The Prevention of Literature’ (1946)

OK, here we go ... I’m just an Okie. Back to you, Tex.


45 posted on 04/27/2013 9:45:10 PM PDT by tumblindice
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To: tumblindice

I lived in Piedmont, OK for 7 years and was in an out of Oklahoma on business for over 15 years.

We liked OK and my Okie friends.

I do business with OSU’s seed program now. Could not be happier with that relationship.

Okies are OK with me.


46 posted on 04/27/2013 9:53:01 PM PDT by Texas Fossil
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To: Texas Fossil

My Dad’s an OSU Cowpoke. They’ve got a good football team in recent years.
The Catholics aren’t gonna drag us outta our beds and burn us, ya think?
(With it bein’ Sunday and everthin’ ;^)


47 posted on 04/27/2013 10:21:28 PM PDT by tumblindice
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To: Texas Fossil

No, the Baptists and the Super-Baptists (CofC) claim to have gone underground for 1500 years.


48 posted on 04/27/2013 11:31:31 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: Alex Murphy

>>>“Where it has not been possible for the child of a mixed marriage to be brought up as a Catholic, the Catholic parent does not fall subject to the censure of canon law,” Lord Wallace explained>>>

There’s obviously a little paraphrasing here. What it SHOULD have said is, “When the Catholic parent has been promised, as required by the Catholic church for permission of the marriage, that children of the marriage will be raised Catholic, and the promise has not been kept, the Catholic is blameless.”

SHEESH! Talk about twisting facts.


49 posted on 04/28/2013 1:42:52 AM PDT by kitkat (STORM THE HEAVENS WITH PRAYERS FOR OUR COUNTRY)
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To: savagesusie
Historically The Roman Catholic Church had always allowed monarchs to divorce their spou=ses for reasons of dynastic succession, or even just because.

The only problem at that time was the Pope was prisoner of Katherine's of Aragon nephew, and so was forced to refudiate the divorce.

50 posted on 04/28/2013 2:14:11 AM PDT by Oztrich Boy (RIP Chrissie Amphlett.)
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