The Rise of a Counterfeit Christianity

The Church Jesus Built ^ | Various | United Church of God

[spudville]

WHO STARTED YOUR CHURCH?
There are more than 30000 different Christian churches teaching different doctrines.
How did they split into so many?
Starting about 400 years ago:
If you are Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex-monk of the Catholic Church, in the year 1517.
The Anabaptist religion splintered from the Lutherans in 1520, founded by Nicholas Storch and Thomas Munzer.
The Menonite Church is an offshoot of the Anabaptist Church founded in 1525 and takes its name from Menno Simons, a former Catholic priest.
The Angelicans belong to the Church of England and your religion was founded by King Henry the VIII in the year 1534, because the Pope wouldn’t grant him a divorce with the right to remarry.
If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded by John Knox in Sctland in 1560.
Protestant Episcopalian? Your religion was an offshoot of the Church of England and founded by Samuel Seabury in the American colonies in the 17th century.
If you are a Baptist, John Smyth began it in 1605 in Amsterdam.
The Congregationalist religion was originated by Robert Brown in Holland in 1582.
Quakers began their religion in 1647 by George Fox in England.
If you are Amish, your Church was founded by Jacob Anman in 1693.
If you are Methodist, you religion was launched by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744.
Unitarian religion founded in 1774 by Theophilus Lindley in London.
If you are Mormon (Latter Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your religion in Palmyra, N.Y. in 1829.
If you are Dutch Reformed church, you recognize Michaelis Jones as founder. Originated in 1828.
If you worship with the Salvation Army, your sect was began by William Booth in London in 1865.
If you are a Christian Scientist, 1879 was started by Mary Baker Eddy.
If you are a member of the Assemblies of God, your religion was founded by Charles Parham in Topeka Kansas in 1901.
If you belong to the Church of the Nazarene, your religion was started in 1908.
If you are a Jehova’s Witness, your religion was started by Charles Taze Russell in 1931.
If you are a Catholic , you belong to the Church that was founded around the year 33 by Jesus Christ the Son of God. Jesus appointed the first Pope (Mathew 16:19) and as Catholics we can trace our apostolic lineage from Pope Peter to Pope Francis.
For 1500 years Christians were united in one Church. The splintering that has taken place since the Catholic Church began has been a failed experiment. Pray for Christian Unity.
This is some what paraphrased form a Mathew Kelly article that was emailed and I could not get it to post.

[trebb]

I have read enough posts to know that my initial thoughts were correct. Many folks get so preoccupied protecting their own religion/church that they miss a lot of the message - many Christian churches have been infiltrated and not only abide by, but preach non-Biblical doctrine. There are false teachers at every level of every major religion/church and it only continues to get worse as the Laity becomes lazy enough to just nod their heads instead of doing some research to see if what they are being taught is true. Jesus thought even the worst folks needed to be ministered to because that is where the damage was being done - today's "tolerance" pushes have taken many those damaged folks out of the "should be ministered to" and into the "shall perform the ministrations" status.

I still see many who take Jesus Old Covenant preachings (we were under the Old Covenant until He arose) as requirements to get to Heaven under the New Covenant. Many ascribe to the words that we must keep the Commandments or be banished to hell. If we could keep the Commandments, He would not have had to be sacrificed for us - those who think they are really keeping all the Commandments are like the Pharisees of the day and delusional. Satan has a foothold in the religions and churches and it is up to members of those religions/churches to point it out when they see it and to question it if they suspect it - daunting tasks given the human condition. My non-denominational preacher ensures that every service is used to declare Jesus as Lord and Savior and as Ordained Ruler of all. He tells us that if ever confronted by any seemingly miraculous people we should require that they declare the same before we give them the time of day. If all churches practiced the same (I hope many here belong to churches that do) consistency and purpose of message, Evil would not be growing like kudzu among us.

[Campion]

Doug, Where in the Bible does it say that Romans or Revelation or 1 Timothy are part of Scripture? How do you know that they are? How do you respond to someone who rejects the entire NT and says that only Tanakh is Scripture.

Second question. How can Jesus and the Father be "two members of the God family" when the holiest prayer of the Jewish people is, "Hear, O Israel, the L-rd your G-d, the L-rd is ONE"?

[Campion]

On the same side as the WCOG, hmm, GPH? Cults like the JWs, the Mormons, and the WCOG just take Protestantism to its logical conclusion, IMO. Either Christ was so incompetent that his church fell into utter desuetude and had to be rediscovered or “reformed” through the ministrations of ... (wait for it) ... *puny humans*, or He — as the Scriptures note — “did all things well,” including preserving his Church from apostasy, error, and disunity ... forever.

[DouglasKC]

I would recommend everyone read this link by CARM before getting too involved with this thread. You may even want to look up the UCG’s website.

Yeah, it's much easier to shoot the messenger than have to deal with the content..... :-)

[DouglasKC]

Lordy, Lordy, Doug. Wasn’t the last one enough?

Well since I made so many friends on the last thread I figured I'd go all in with this chapter.... :-)

[DouglasKC]

Excellent post...a good book addressing these issues is The Hebrew Yeshua vs the Greek Jesus by Nehemia Gordon. This book shows the discrepancies between the true Messiah Yeshua and the counterfeit Jesus created by the Greco

Thanks...I will check it out...

[DouglasKC]

Doug, Where in the Bible does it say that Romans or Revelation or 1 Timothy are part of Scripture? How do you know that they are? How do you respond to someone who rejects the entire NT and says that only Tanakh is Scripture.

Hi Campion...I'll try to answer as best I can..

Where in the Bible does it say that Romans or Revelation or 1 Timothy are part of Scripture?

It doesn't explictily. But it doesn't say that any of the other books, old or new testament, are part of scripture either. If your question is "how" was the new testament canon decided upon then scripture seems to indicate that God was guiding it even during biblical times. For example:

2Pe 3:15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,
2Pe 3:16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

Peter ranks the writings of Paul with the "rest of the scriptures" which seems to indicate that they had already gained a preeminence among Christians.

How do you respond to someone who rejects the entire NT and says that only Tanakh is Scripture.

Usually I wouldn't. :-)

They haven't come to the point yet where they believe Jesus Christ is the prophesied messiah and Lord. That's a revelation that needs to be given by God and the difference between our positions is too vast to ever hope to be fruitful.

Thanks and take care...

[DouglasKC]

Well done.

Thanks, but I only posted someone else's article.. :-(

[CynicalBear]

That’s a well done article and spot on. Probably the best analysis I’ve seen.

[wafflehouse]

im not sure what exactly you are referring to ("point #3 in the document you cited.")

but are you telling me that the council of Nicea had a different viewpoint than the emperor?

and where did easter come from?

did Jesus celebrate easter?

[Springfield Reformer]

It’s not shooting the messenger. It more like finding out who actually sent the messenger. You don’t really want to sneak up on people, I assume, so you should have no problem with us getting some info on ucog.

BTW, ladyL, I owe you a conversation and have not delivered. I apologize. I have been drowning in work, family, and Second Amendment activity. I honestly don’t know where some FReepers get the time for these huge, endless debates. Retirees? Independently wealthy? Dunno. Anyway, if you’re still interested, we could discuss it a little more on some new thread. But I’ll be honest and say I don’t know where I will get the time for a fair, well researched conversation. Anyway, my bad, and your call. Lemme know.

Peace,

SR

[Truth2012]

Thanks for posting. All true.

[DouglasKC]

Thanks for those links...one of these days I want to do a project and look up all traditional church documents that show the level of anti-semitism that was rampant in the early church. As your quotes and the quote below shows, the early church wanted to not resemble Jews in any ways so they distanced themselves by doing away with the sabbaths and holy days of the Lord and other things that might mark them as Jews.

This anti-semitism resulted from a series of Jewish revolts against the Roman empire.

"So first, it was desirable to change the situation so that we have nothing in common with that nation of father-killers who slew their Lord."

[DouglasKC]

It’s not shooting the messenger. It more like finding out who actually sent the messenger. You don’t really want to sneak up on people, I assume, so you should have no problem with us getting some info on ucog.

The link provided was not to UCG. It's like getting information about Protestants from a Catholic website. These links are fairer:

Fundamental Beliefs

This is United Church of God

Thanks!

[Zionist Conspirator]

You know, "true chrstianity" has been "restored" a bazillion times already.

You know what? . . . One of these days somebody's gonna get it right! [/sarcasm]

[Springfield Reformer]

Thanks for the links. I will check them out.

But understand, I’m an attorney by training. I believe in the adversarial method of getting at the truth. I am as interested in what your enemies say as much as what you say about yourself. To rely only upon favorable sources would be like taking Baghdad Bob at his word without checking other sources. It’s even a biblical model. Remember that passage from Solomon, about you hear one side of the story and it all sounds true, then you hear the other side and they’re believable too. I forget the reference.

Anyway, I’ve used carm a lot for quickly getting a general context, and they’ve never steered me wrong. If you think they are factually incorrect, make your case. I’ll listen to almost anything once. But I won’t waste precious time going in endless circles. I’m not rich, can’t get away with that. :)

[Steelfish]

That’s a non sequitur. I wasn’t talking about government establishment of religion but rather the flood of heretical sects and sects within sects (think Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen, Jesse Jackson, Rev. Schuller, Tammy Faye Baker, and all these religious hucksters) caused by the Reformation.

[DouglasKC]

Anyway, I’ve used carm a lot for quickly getting a general context, and they’ve never steered me wrong. If you think they are factually incorrect, make your case.

They're steering you wrong. :-)

From the website:

The United Church of God is a non-Christian cult that denies the Trinity, the true divinity of Christ, and requires both baptism and obedience to the commandments to be saved. It teaches that there is a "God family" of which we can become members through keeping the Law.

The United Church of God is a non-Christian cult

They start off with a lie (non-Christian) and a pejorative use of "cult". If they wanted to be honest they could have said "non-traditional" or "unorthodox" Christian.

that denies the Trinity, the true divinity of Christ,

UCG doesn't embrace the trinity doctrine because the trinity doctrine is not biblical...it's an evolved doctrine that didn't become an offical part of church teaching until 3 centuries after the death of Christ. The second part implies that UCG denies the true divinity of Christ. This is either a deliberate lie or an error of massive proportion. UCG believes completely and fully in the true divinity of Christ.

and requires both baptism and obedience to the commandments to be saved.

A lie or half truth at best. The only thing "required" to be saved is the grace of God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Salvation is a free gift but obedience is expected in return.

Heb 5:8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.
Heb 5:9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.

It teaches that there is a "God family" of which we can become members through keeping the Law.

Again, a deliberate lie or outright misrepresentation. We are children of God...God family is a way of describing our relationship with our father in heaven. We don't become children by "keeping the law". We become children through the grace of God through Christ...but again obedience to the Lord is expected of his people.

In short, this analysis seems to take the position of the counterfeit church described in the article. The main thrust of this false church is that the law of God is somehow "bad" and to be avoided and that obedience to the Lord is something that Christians shouldn't practice.

Thanks for giving me the chance to set the record straight. Clearly it's hard to sum up doctrine in a few words so I recommend you peruse the links provided earlier.

[Mount Athos]

and where did easter come from?

From passover, Exodus 12, changed in light of the Last Supper, Jesus' sacrifice on the cross & resurrection.

Realize the discussions and documents from the council of Nicea did not use the word "Easter", an unfortunately choice of words when translating the text into English.

The word in the original languages used at Nicea was "Paska"(πάσχα greek) or "Pascha"(latin)-- a transliteration of Aramaic form of Hebrew word for Passover.

Jesus spoke Aramaic and possibly a similar sounding word for passover.

I apologize for an earlier error falsely claiming that Nicea voted on the canon of the bible, they didn't.