“Christian baptism is different than anything before it - and Peter made it clear what happens through baptism.”
Based on what? Your assertion? Why should we divorce the practice of baptism as performed by the Jews? Especially when it is clear that it is a spiritual regeneration of the Holy Spirit which is superior? But yet, you would have us divorce it from the practice of the Jews, only to make it even more carnal than the Jews, as if spiritual regeneration can be accomplished through a physical act.
You assert alot. You try to prove very little.
“1) If Paradise is Heaven - which is what you probably believe - then how is it that Jesus preached to the prisoners in the Prison of the Patriarchs? That isn’t heaven either.”
You are denying that the Thief was saved? If he did not go to hell, then his progress must be to heaven, whether he went with Jesus to an allegedly separate paradise and then to heaven is irrelevant. You also dodge Cornelius and his family who were baptized by the Spirit before the baptism by water, and then, without bothering to reconcile it, you make more baseless assertions.
As for the scripture you are referring to, while it doesn’t prove your point either way, and is therefore utterly irrelevant, I will add that it is not settled that Jesus preached to the dead, and it does not reference the patriarchs, but rather the antedeluvians.
1Pe 3:18-20 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: (19) By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; (20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
He says he went to speak to the spirits in prison, but it can either be read “when they were spirits,” or it can be read as referring to the past, “He went to preach to those who now are spirits,” which occurred during the times of Noah, as immediately referenced.
“When you actually deal with the verses I posted I might do more. Until then I don’t see the need.”
I did, and more. But if you cannot debate using the scripture, it is more to my benefit. My argument stands unmolested by any serious response.
“Man, you’re not doing well.”
I know when the other side is not doing well when they stop responding with even the semblance of argument and start asserting that I am not doing well.
When you can explain how the Universal Pasotr, possessor of supreme power, the vicar of Christ by whom all authority presides, is “just another Bishop not worthy of mentioning as separate”, then you can belittle me.
Until then, dream on.
“Really? Says who that there is no debate on this?”
Says you, who evidently stopped debating it in favor of writing this useless sentence.
“You’re still refusing to acknowledge that Theodoret had views that go against yours.”
You’re still refusing to acknowledge that Theodoret believed more than one person represented Peter. You refuse to even discuss it. IOW, you can’t.
If all you have are assertions and dodges and half-arguments, I’ll not keep responding.
you wrote:
“Based on what? Your assertion?”
Does anyone doubt that Christian baptism is different than Jewish baptism?
“Why should we divorce the practice of baptism as performed by the Jews?”
No divorce, just graduation. Christian baptism is from Christ. It is the fulfillment of what came before it. It is greater than what came before it.
“Especially when it is clear that it is a spiritual regeneration of the Holy Spirit which is superior?”
And taht happens through baptism - hence the forgiveness of sins and salvation as said by Luke and Peter.
“But yet, you would have us divorce it from the practice of the Jews, only to make it even more carnal than the Jews, as if spiritual regeneration can be accomplished through a physical act.”
It’s no more carnal than Christ who took on flesh to accomplish a spiritual mission.
“You assert alot. You try to prove very little.”
Sometimes no amount of proof will work because some are so lost in darkness and bigotry that they can’t understand even the smallest of things.
“You are denying that the Thief was saved?”
Nope. I am merely pointing out the truth: not all men who are saved are saved with baptism but baptism’s grace still saves, and Paradise is not necessarily Heaven as scripture scholars have long recognized. When Jesus died He went to Paradise (Luke 23:43). But He told Mary “I am not yet ascended unto the Father” (John 20:17). Only after His resurrection did Jesus ascend to the Father (Acts 2:32-33). So the dwelling place of the Father sure doesn’t sound like Paradise. Could Paradise be a lower level of Heaven? If so, then how could Jesus have been in the Prison of the Patriarchs and in Paradise (Heaven) with the St, Dismas (the Good Thief)? Didn’t you ever notice that before?
“If he did not go to hell, then his progress must be to heaven, whether he went with Jesus to an allegedly separate paradise and then to heaven is irrelevant.”
Don’t you know the scriptures? He went to the Prison of the Patriarchs (1 Peter 3:19). Don’t you know this?
“You also dodge Cornelius and his family who were baptized by the Spirit before the baptism by water, and then, without bothering to reconcile it, you make more baseless assertions.”
No, I didn’t dodge anything. I have no doubt the Cornelius recieved gifts of faith from the Holy Spirit. I also have no doubt that they were baptism since that was the common practice. The gifts before baptism do not negate the gifts of baptism.
“As for the scripture you are referring to, while it doesn’t prove your point either way, and is therefore utterly irrelevant, I will add that it is not settled that Jesus preached to the dead, and it does not reference the patriarchs, but rather the antedeluvians.”
It’s called the Prison of the Patriarchs. That’s its name.
“When you can explain how the Universal Pasotr, possessor of supreme power, the vicar of Christ by whom all authority presides, is “just another Bishop not worthy of mentioning as separate”, then you can belittle me.”
No, I’ll choose to “belittle” (i.e. tell the truth you don’t like) all the time.
“Says you, who evidently stopped debating it in favor of writing this useless sentence.”
The point is that you were wrong - there’s plenty of debate on it.
“You’re still refusing to acknowledge that Theodoret believed more than one person represented Peter. You refuse to even discuss it. IOW, you can’t.”
No, it just doesn’t mean what you seem to be lending to it. Don’t all bishops in some sense represent Peter? And yet Peter was different and His last see is different and always has been.
“If all you have are assertions and dodges and half-arguments, I’ll not keep responding.”
Great. Walk away.