“First you said the Catholic Church “teaches that Paul was all wrong about salvation by grace...” Now you just completely avoid the “salvation by grace” issue and are now focusing on faith. “
I didn’t at all. I quoted from the catechism saying that salvation is “achieved” not by grace, but through baptism, obedience and works.
It’s interesting you dodged it completely and accused me of doing the same thing.
“Nope. Jesus said it was Peter. Even many Protestant scripture scholars admit this:”
Suppose the rock is Peter, and not Jesus Christ who is called the Rock or the cornerstone of the Church, most prominently taught in Peter’s own works no less. Who is to say that the rock in reference here is not to Peter’s work as being the first to preach (after Pentecost) to the Jews and Gentiles? Thus, he is a rock, or a foundation of the church. But certainly not the only foundation, as Peter himself teaches quite clearly that all Christians are “rocks” of the church, building up a Holy House.
Certainly the other Apostles established their churches across the world, and there is no evidence in the Bible that the Apostles never considered themselves as all equal ministers of the Gospel. In fact, on more than one occasion the “authority” and “infallibility” of Peter is challenged, at least in the sense if he were actually the Pope at that time.
I already gave the example of Paul. Another example is in Acts 15, where the advice of James, and not of Peter, is followed.
The Roman abuses, therefore, have no basis of scripture, aside from a tortured interpretation from Matthew. It’s more reading into the scripture what the Catholics want, and less what is in the scripture itself.
“He didn’t have to. The pope is the bishop of Rome.”
Ignatius wrote to every Bishop in the letters he sent, except in his letter to the Romans, where he wrote to no Bishop at all. Probably because there wasn’t one.
Ignatius says that the head of Bishop is God, and does not reference anything still yet between them.
“Ignatius, who is [also called] Theophorus, to Polycarp, bishop of Smyrna, or rather, who has as his own bishop God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ: [wishes] abundance of happiness.” ~ Epistle to Polycarp
Not once in any of his epistles does Ignatius reference any one higher than a Bishop, aside from God Himself.
“What Pope St. Gregory I wrote was this:”
So your big argument is just to quote, but with more text, the same argument wherein Gregory declares: :”..See of one, and one See, over which by Divine authority three bishops now preside.”
That doesn’t help the Papal cause, which says the seat of Peter is in Rome only, and only has one who possesses the authority of Peter.
“And about Theodoret and his views on the papacy, I’ll quote him as cited by Dolan in The See of Peter and the voice of Antiquity:”
lol, again, you ignore the argument, which is that Theodoret placed the “See of Peter” in three places also, placing the “Throne of Peter” under the Bishop of Antioch.
“So, apparently you still have quite a bit of studying to do.”
Says the guy who argues against mist and shadows.
you wrote:
“I didn’t at all. I quoted from the catechism saying that salvation is “achieved” not by grace, but through baptism, obedience and works.”
Grace is received through baptism, for instance. Thus, salvation is through grace alone. What will save you, grace or faith? I will be saved by grace alone. Some of that grace I will have received through baptism, but I will still be saved by grace alone.
“It’s interesting you dodged it completely and accused me of doing the same thing.”
I didn’t dodge it. It wasn’t pertinent. Again, you FALSELY claimed that the Catholic Church said St. Paul was wrong. The Church did no such thing. I corrected you. You then tried to change the argument and are still wrong.
“No Protestants I care for, and I doubt there are many that even do who would still go forward to embrace the Roman abuse of it, which make Peter out to be infallible, and possessing an authority above all the Apostles.”
It doesn’t matter what you care for. It only matters that you were wrong, again. Jesus founded the Church on Peter and many men who are greater scholars of scripture than you apparently are agree.
“Suppose the rock is Peter, ...building up a Holy House.”
‘Suppose’ really means nothing.
“Certainly the other Apostles established their churches across the world, and there is no evidence in the Bible that the Apostles never considered themselves as all equal ministers of the Gospel. In fact, on more than one occasion the “authority” and “infallibility” of Peter is challenged, at least in the sense if he were actually the Pope at that time.”
No, not once. Yes, Peter was challenged and rebuked by Paul - as he should have been - and tha had nothing to do with “the sense if he were actually the Pope at that time.” The problem with Protestant assumptions is that they’re not only assumptions, which are always a problem, but that they are faulty in their premise.
“I already gave the example of Paul. Another example is in Acts 15, where the advice of James, and not of Peter, is followed.”
Again, false. Peter’s advice is followed first. That’s why everyone there held their tongue immediately after he spoke.
“The Roman abuses, therefore, have no basis of scripture, aside from a tortured interpretation from Matthew. It’s more reading into the scripture what the Catholics want, and less what is in the scripture itself.”
Again, false. Protestantism didn’t exist for nearly 1500 years. Then Luther had his tower experience while emptying his bowels in the cloaca (seriously, look it up), and Protestantism as a theory - a bad one - was born. Born on the toilet. How fitting.
“Ignatius wrote to every Bishop in the letters he sent, except in his letter to the Romans, where he wrote to no Bishop at all. Probably because there wasn’t one.”
But we know that there was one. We already have the letter of Clement to the Corinthians, for instance. Ignatius would not be interested in endangering the life of the pope by mentioning him by name.
“Ignatius says that the head of Bishop is God, and does not reference anything still yet between them.”
Because the pope doesn’t stand between them, but leads them instead. That’s just Protestant thinking.
“Not once in any of his epistles does Ignatius reference any one higher than a Bishop, aside from God Himself.”
Again, the pope is a bishop.
“So your big argument is just to quote, but with more text, the same argument wherein Gregory declares: :”..See of one, and one See, over which by Divine authority three bishops now preside.””
No, my argument is that the context shows you were taking it out of context.
“That doesn’t help the Papal cause, which says the seat of Peter is in Rome only, and only has one who possesses the authority of Peter.”
That isn’t the “Papal cause”. Honestly, it’s as if you have no idea of what you’re talking about. Did being in Avignon for 70 years stop popes from being popes? No, it did not.
“lol, again, you ignore the argument, which is that Theodoret placed the “See of Peter” in three places also, placing the “Throne of Peter” under the Bishop of Antioch.”
There was no argument to ignore. You never made an argument. You merely posted a quote from Theodoret - which clearly had no context so I posted more information.
“Says the guy who argues against mist and shadows.”
Says the guy who claims he made an argument when all he did was post a quote or two which in no way go against the idea of a papacy.