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To: Laissez-faire capitalist; All

The believers were saved before the Day of Pentecost, thus constituting the body of Christ, yet the church (the body of Christ) wasn’t formed until the Day of Pentecost?

Halfway outside the womb until that day?


2 posted on 02/11/2013 8:35:32 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
The believers were saved before the Day of Pentecost, thus constituting the body of Christ, yet the church (the body of Christ) wasn’t formed until the Day of Pentecost?

Okay let's clear one thing up right off the bat: No one is saved or damned until the moment of death. Up until then no one knows for certain.

Second you are forming in the womb for nine months before your actual birth. You are not half out of the womb are you?

10 posted on 02/11/2013 8:52:43 AM PST by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

“Would someone please explain, then, how the church wasn’t formed or “born” until the day of Pentecost? “

No one permanently was indwelt by the Holy Spirit. No one was baptized by the Holy Spirit into the Body of Christ, which comprises the Church of all believers of all time. Until that moment, there was no Church.


11 posted on 02/11/2013 8:53:51 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international, gone independent. Gone.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
Of course believers that were baptized were saved prior to Pentecost. The Church already existed. Christ told Peter while Christ was still in mortality that he was building His Church upon “This rock”. There is some discussion on what “This rock” is but for this discussion it makes no difference. The church was built and there were members of it.

Jesus Himself had already said the only entrance to the Church was through Baptism and Jesus Himself said that He was building the Church upon “this Rock”. What more do we need?

Pentecost helped the Church grow rapidly but it had nothing to do with the organization of the Church.

This is not a subject I have ever before contemplated. I certainly haven't worried about the salvation of those who personally associated with The Lord, I have a feeling they are well taken care of.

12 posted on 02/11/2013 8:54:50 AM PST by JAKraig (Surely my religion is at least as good as yours)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
the word used for "church" is ἐκκλησία (ekklésia).

this is the same word used in the septuagint (a greek translation of the old testament which was written 200 years before Christ) and it is used to refer to religious gatherings or assemblies.
(see for example in the Septuagint Deuteronomy 31:30)

"Church" was a word invented by someone intending to create division.


this word is equivalent to קָהָל in the hebrew

in Acts 7:38 this word is translated as 'congregation'
18 posted on 02/11/2013 9:21:41 AM PST by wafflehouse (RE-ELECT NO ONE !)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

While Jesus was with them, he was their teacher, after Jesus left he had told them to wait for the Holy Spirit to come to teach them by His indwelling Spirit. Always with believers, He will never leave us or forsake us, in Jesus name, amen.

Sinners need the Holy Spirit to teach them understanding and truth as they read and study the Scriptures. Thank Thee LORD, for thy grace, in Jesus name, amen.


31 posted on 02/11/2013 10:36:22 AM PST by geologist (" If you love me, keep my commandments" John 14:15)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
A church is mentioned in the OT (via Acts):
(Acts 7: 37, 38): 37* This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. 38* This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

Moses was in the church in the wilderness. This church consisted of old-testament saved saints. A church is simply a congregation, not some universal entity as pushed by Catholics and her protestant children. We are collectively called "saints" in the Bible, existing in many congregations/assemblies/churches.

Logically all it takes is one exception to invalidate a theory. Here it is--the fly in the catholic church ointment.

61 posted on 02/11/2013 9:29:27 PM PST by nonsporting
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