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Resurrection of the Body (Ecumenical)
Catholic Answers ^

Posted on 01/06/2013 3:34:53 PM PST by narses

The Bible tells us that when Jesus returns to earth, he will physically raise all those who have died, giving them back the bodies they lost at death.

These will be the same bodies people had in earthly life—but our resurrection bodies will not die and, for the righteous, they will be transformed into a glorified state, freed from suffering and pain, and enabled to do many of the amazing things Jesus could do with his glorified body (cf. 1 Cor. 15:35–44, 1 John 3:2).

The resurrection of the body is an essential Christian doctrine, as the apostle Paul declares: "[I]f the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised. If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished" (1 Cor. 15:13–18).

Because, as Paul tells us, the Christian faith cannot exist without this doctrine, it has been infallibly defined by the Church. It is included in the three infallible professions of faith—the Apostles’ Creed, the Nicene Creed, and the Athanasian Creed—and has been solemnly, infallibly taught by ecumenical councils.

The Fourth Lateran Council (1215), infallibly defined that at the second coming Jesus "will judge the living and the dead, to render to every person according to his works, both to the reprobate and to the elect. All of them will rise with their own bodies, which they now wear, so as to receive according to their deserts, whether these be good or bad [Rom. 2:6–11]" (constitution 1).

Most recently, the Catechism of the Catholic Church reiterated this long-defined teaching, stating, "‘We believe in the true resurrection of this flesh that we now possess’ (Council of Lyons II). We sow a corruptible body in the tomb, but he raises up an incorruptible body, a ‘spiritual body’ (cf. 1 Cor 15:42–44)" (CCC 1017).

As the following quotes from the Church Fathers show, this has been the historic teaching of the Christian faith on the matter since the very beginning.

Pope Clement I

"Let us consider, beloved, how the Master is continually proving to us that there will be a future resurrection, of which he has made the Lord Jesus Christ the firstling, by raising him from the dead. Let us look, beloved, at the resurrection which is taking place seasonally. Day and night make known the resurrection to us. The night sleeps, the day arises. Consider the plants that grow. How and in what manner does the sowing take place? The sower went forth and cast each of the seeds onto the ground; and they fall to the ground, parched and bare, where they decay. Then from their decay the greatness of the master’s providence raises them up, and from the one grain more grow and bring forth fruit" (Letter to the Corinthians 24:1–6 [A.D. 80]).

The Apostles’ Creed

"I believe in . . . the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the flesh. Amen" (Old Roman Symbol [A.D. 125]).

Polycarp of Smyrna

"[W]hoever perverts the sayings of the Lord for his own desires, and says that there is neither resurrection nor judgment, such a one is the firstborn of Satan. Let us, therefore, leave the foolishness and the false-teaching of the crowd and turn back to the word which was delivered to us in the beginning" (Letter to the Philippians 7:1–2 [A.D. 135]).

Aristides

"[Christians] have the commandments of the Lord Jesus Christ himself impressed upon their hearts, and they observe them, awaiting the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come" (Apology 15 [A.D. 140]).

Second Clement

"Let none of you say that this flesh is not judged and does not rise again. Just think: In what state were you saved, and in what state did you recover your [spiritual] sight, if not in the flesh? In the same manner, as you were called in the flesh, so you shall come in the flesh. If Christ, the Lord who saved us, though he was originally spirit, became flesh and in this state called us, so also shall we receive our reward in the flesh. Let us, therefore, love one another, so that we may all come into the kingdom of God" (Second Clement 9:1–6 [A.D. 150]).

Justin Martyr

"The prophets have proclaimed his [Christ’s] two comings. One, indeed, which has already taken place, was that of a dishonored and suffering man. The second will take place when, in accord with prophecy, he shall come from the heavens in glory with his angelic host, when he shall raise the bodies of all the men who ever lived. Then he will clothe the worthy in immortality, but the wicked, clothed in eternal sensibility, he will commit to the eternal fire along with the evil demons" (First Apology 52 [A.D. 151]).

"Indeed, God calls even the body to resurrection and promises it everlasting life. When he promises to save the man, he thereby makes his promise to the flesh. What is man but a rational living being composed of soul and body? Is the soul by itself a man? No, it is but the soul of a man. Can the body be called a man? No, it can but be called the body of a man. If, then, neither of these is by itself a man, but that which is composed of the two together is called a man, and if God has called man to life and resurrection, he has called not a part, but the whole, which is the soul and the body" (The Resurrection 8 [A.D. 153]).

Tatian the Syrian

"We believe that there will be a resurrection of bodies after the consummation of all things" (Address to the Greeks 155 [A.D. 170]).

Theophilus of Antioch

"God will raise up your flesh immortal with your soul; and then, having become immortal, you shall see the immortal, if you will believe in him now; and then you will realize that you have spoken against him unjustly. But you do not believe that the dead will be raised. When it happens, then you will believe, whether you want to or not; but unless you believe now, your faith then will be reckoned as unbelief" (To Autolycus 1:7–8 [A.D. 181]).

Irenaeus

"For the Church, although dispersed throughout the whole world even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and from their disciples the faith in . . . the raising up again of all flesh of all humanity, in order that to Jesus Christ our Lord and God and Savior and King, in accord with the approval of the invisible Father, every knee shall bend of those in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue shall confess him, and that he may make just judgment of them all" (Against Heresies 1:10:1–4 [A.D. 189]).

Tertullian

"After the present age is ended he will judge his worshipers. . . . All who have died since the beginning of time will be raised up again and shaped again and remanded to whichever destiny they deserve" (Apology 18:3 [A.D. 197]).

"Therefore, the flesh shall rise again: certainly of every man, certainly the same flesh, and certainly in its entirety. Wherever it is, in the safekeeping with God through that most faithful agent between God and man, Jesus Christ, who shall reconcile both God to man and man to God, [and] the spirit to the flesh and the flesh to the spirit" (The Resurrection of the Dead 63:1 [A.D. 210]).

"In regard to that which is called the resurrection of the dead, it is necessary to defend the proper meaning of the terms ‘of the dead’ and ‘resurrection.’ The word ‘dead’ signifies merely that something has lost the soul, by the faculty of which it formerly lived. The term ‘dead’ then applies to a body. Moreover, if resurrection is of the dead, and ‘dead’ applies only to a body, the resurrection will be of a body. . . . ‘To rise’ may be said of that which never in any way fell, but which was always lying down. But ‘to rise again’ can only be said of that which has fallen; for by ‘rising again’ that which fell is said to ‘re-surrect.’ The syllable ‘re-’ always implies iteration [happening again]. We say, therefore, that a body falls to the ground in death . . . and that which falls, rises again" (Against Marcion 5:9:3–4 [A.D. 210]).

Minucius Felix

"See, too, how for our consolation all nature suggests the future resurrection. The sun sinks down, but is reborn. The stars go out, but return again. Flowers die, but come to life again. After their decay shrubs put forth leaves again; not unless seeds decay does their strength return. A body in the grave is like the trees in winter: They hide their sap under a deceptive dryness. Why are you in haste for it to revive and return, while yet the winter is raw? We must await even the spring of the body. I am not ignorant of the fact that many, in the consciousness of what they deserve, would rather hope than actually believe that there is nothing for them after death. They would prefer to be annihilated rather than be restored for punishment" (Octavius 34:11–12 [A.D. 226]).

Aphraahat the Persian Sage

"Therefore be instructed by this, you fool, that each and every one of the seeds is clothed in its own body. Never do you sow wheat and reap barley, and never did you plant a vine and have it produce figs. But everything grows in accord with its own nature. So also the body which has been laid in the ground is the same which will rise again" (Treatises 8:3 [A.D. 340]).

Cyril of Jerusalem

"This body shall be raised, not remaining weak as it is now, but this same body shall be raised. By putting on incorruption, it shall be altered, as iron blending with fire becomes fire—or rather, in a manner the Lord who raises us knows. However it will be, this body shall be raised, but it shall not remain such as it is. Rather, it shall abide as an eternal body. It shall no longer require for its life such nourishment as now, nor shall it require a ladder for its ascent; for it shall be made a spiritual body, a marvelous thing, such as we have not the ability to describe" (Catechetical Lectures 18:18 [A.D. 350]).

Epiphanius of Salamis

"As for those who profess to be Christians . . . and who confess the resurrection of the dead, of our body and of the body of the Lord . . . but who at the same time say that the same flesh does not rise, but other flesh is given in its place by God, are we not to say that this opinion exceeds all others in impiety" (The Man Well-Anchored 87 [A.D. 374]).

The Nicene Creed

"We confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins; we look for a resurrection of the dead and life in the age to come. Amen" (Nicene Creed [A.D. 381]).

The Athanasian Creed

"[Jesus Christ] sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty. From there he shall come to judge the living and the dead; at his coming all men have to rise again with their bodies and will render an account of their own deeds; and those who have done good will go into life everlasting, but those who have done evil, into eternal fire [Rom. 2:6–11]. This is the Catholic faith, unless everyone believes this faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved" (Athanasian Creed [A.D. 400]).

Augustine

"Perish the thought that the omnipotence of the Creator is unable, for the raising of our bodies and for the restoring of them to life, to recall all [their] parts, which were consumed by beasts or by fire, or which disintegrated into dust or ashes, or were melted away into a fluid, or were evaporated away in vapors" (The City of God 22:20:1 [A.D. 419]).

"God, the wonderful and inexpressible Artisan, will, with a wonderful and inexpressible speed, restore our flesh from the whole of the material of which it was constituted, and it will make no difference to its reconstruction whether hairs go back to hairs and nails go back to nails, or whatever of these had perished be changed to flesh and be assigned to other parts of the body, while the providence of the Artisan will take care that nothing unseemly result" (Handbook of Faith, Hope, and Charity 23:89 [A.D. 421]).

NIHIL OBSTAT: I have concluded that the materials presented in this work are free of doctrinal or moral errors. Bernadeane Carr, STL, Censor Librorum, August 10, 2004 IMPRIMATUR: In accord with 1983 CIC 827 permission to publish this work is hereby granted. +Robert H. Brom, Bishop of San Diego, August 10, 2004

ARTICLE 11 "I BELIEVE IN THE RESURRECTION OF THE BODY"

988 The Christian Creed - the profession of our faith in God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and in God's creative, saving, and sanctifying action - culminates in the proclamation of the resurrection of the dead on the last day and in life everlasting.

989 We firmly believe, and hence we hope that, just as Christ is truly risen from the dead and lives for ever, so after death the righteous will live for ever with the risen Christ and he will raise them up on the last day.534 Our resurrection, like his own, will be the work of the Most Holy Trinity:

If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit who dwells in you.535 990 The term "flesh" refers to man in his state of weakness and mortality.536 The "resurrection of the flesh" (the literal formulation of the Apostles' Creed) means not only that the immortal soul will live on after death, but that even our "mortal body" will come to life again.537

991 Belief in the resurrection of the dead has been an essential element of the Christian faith from its beginnings. "The confidence of Christians is the resurrection of the dead; believing this we live."538

How can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised; if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain. . . . But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep.539 I. CHRIST'S RESURRECTION AND OURS

The progressive revelation of the Resurrection

992 God revealed the resurrection of the dead to his people progressively. Hope in the bodily resurrection of the dead established itself as a consequence intrinsic to faith in God as creator of the whole man, soul and body. The creator of heaven and earth is also the one who faithfully maintains his covenant with Abraham and his posterity. It was in this double perspective that faith in the resurrection came to be expressed. In their trials, the Maccabean martyrs confessed:

The King of the universe will raise us up to an everlasting renewal of life, because we have died for his laws.540 One cannot but choose to die at the hands of men and to cherish the hope that God gives of being raised again by him.541 993 The Pharisees and many of the Lord's contemporaries hoped for the resurrection. Jesus teaches it firmly. To the Sadducees who deny it he answers, "Is not this why you are wrong, that you know neither the scriptures nor the power of God?"542 Faith in the resurrection rests on faith in God who "is not God of the dead, but of the living."543

994 But there is more. Jesus links faith in the resurrection to his own person: "I am the Resurrection and the life."544 It is Jesus himself who on the last day will raise up those who have believed in him, who have eaten his body and drunk his blood.545 Already now in this present life he gives a sign and pledge of this by restoring some of the dead to life,546 announcing thereby his own Resurrection, though it was to be of another order. He speaks of this unique event as the "sign of Jonah,"547 the sign of the temple: he announces that he will be put to death but rise thereafter on the third day.548

995 To be a witness to Christ is to be a "witness to his Resurrection," to "[have eaten and drunk] with him after he rose from the dead."549 Encounters with the risen Christ characterize the Christian hope of resurrection. We shall rise like Christ, with him, and through him.

996 From the beginning, Christian faith in the resurrection has met with incomprehension and opposition.550 "On no point does the Christian faith encounter more opposition than on the resurrection of the body."551 It is very commonly accepted that the life of the human person continues in a spiritual fashion after death. But how can we believe that this body, so clearly mortal, could rise to everlasting life?

How do the dead rise?

997 What is "rising"? In death, the separation of the soul from the body, the human body decays and the soul goes to meet God, while awaiting its reunion with its glorified body. God, in his almighty power, will definitively grant incorruptible life to our bodies by reuniting them with our souls, through the power of Jesus' Resurrection.

998 Who will rise? All the dead will rise, "those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment."552

999 How? Christ is raised with his own body: "See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself";553 but he did not return to an earthly life. So, in him, "all of them will rise again with their own bodies which they now bear," but Christ "will change our lowly body to be like his glorious body," into a "spiritual body":554

But someone will ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?" You foolish man! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. And what you sow is not the body which is to be, but a bare kernel. . . . What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable. . . . The dead will be raised imperishable. . . . For this perishable nature must put on the imperishable, and this mortal nature must put on immortality.555 1000 This "how" exceeds our imagination and understanding; it is accessible only to faith. Yet our participation in the Eucharist already gives us a foretaste of Christ's transfiguration of our bodies:

Just as bread that comes from the earth, after God's blessing has been invoked upon it, is no longer ordinary bread, but Eucharist, formed of two things, the one earthly and the other heavenly: so too our bodies, which partake of the Eucharist, are no longer corruptible, but possess the hope of resurrection.556 1001 When? Definitively "at the last day," "at the end of the world."557 Indeed, the resurrection of the dead is closely associated with Christ's Parousia:

For the Lord himself will descend from heaven, with a cry of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.558 Risen with Christ

1002 Christ will raise us up "on the last day"; but it is also true that, in a certain way, we have already risen with Christ. For, by virtue of the Holy Spirit, Christian life is already now on earth a participation in the death and Resurrection of Christ:

And you were buried with him in Baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead . . . . If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.559 1003 United with Christ by Baptism, believers already truly participate in the heavenly life of the risen Christ, but this life remains "hidden with Christ in God."560 The Father has already "raised us up with him, and made us sit with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus."561 Nourished with his body in the Eucharist, we already belong to the Body of Christ. When we rise on the last day we "also will appear with him in glory."562

1004 In expectation of that day, the believer's body and soul already participate in the dignity of belonging to Christ. This dignity entails the demand that he should treat with respect his own body, but also the body of every other person, especially the suffering:

The body [is meant] for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. And God raised the Lord and will also raise us up by his power. Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? . . . . You are not your own; . . . . So glorify God in your body.563 II. DYING IN CHRIST JESUS

1005 To rise with Christ, we must die with Christ: we must "be away from the body and at home with the Lord."564 In that "departure" which is death the soul is separated from the body.565 It will be reunited with the body on the day of resurrection of the dead.566

Death

1006 "It is in regard to death that man's condition is most shrouded in doubt."567 In a sense bodily death is natural, but for faith it is in fact "the wages of sin."568 For those who die in Christ's grace it is a participation in the death of the Lord, so that they can also share his Resurrection.569

1007 Death is the end of earthly life. Our lives are measured by time, in the course of which we change, grow old and, as with all living beings on earth, death seems like the normal end of life. That aspect of death lends urgency to our lives: remembering our mortality helps us realize that we have only a limited time in which to bring our lives to fulfillment:

Remember also your Creator in the days of your youth, . . . before the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.570 1008 Death is a consequence of sin. The Church's Magisterium, as authentic interpreter of the affirmations of Scripture and Tradition, teaches that death entered the world on account of man's sin.571 Even though man's nature is mortal God had destined him not to die. Death was therefore contrary to the plans of God the Creator and entered the world as a consequence of sin.572 "Bodily death, from which man would have been immune had he not sinned" is thus "the last enemy" of man left to be conquered.573

1009 Death is transformed by Christ. Jesus, the Son of God, also himself suffered the death that is part of the human condition. Yet, despite his anguish as he faced death, he accepted it in an act of complete and free submission to his Father's will.574 The obedience of Jesus has transformed the curse of death into a blessing.575

* The meaning of Christian death

1010 Because of Christ, Christian death has a positive meaning: "For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain."576 "The saying is sure: if we have died with him, we will also live with him.577 What is essentially new about Christian death is this: through Baptism, the Christian has already "died with Christ" sacramentally, in order to live a new life; and if we die in Christ's grace, physical death completes this "dying with Christ" and so completes our incorporation into him in his redeeming act:

It is better for me to die in (eis) Christ Jesus than to reign over the ends of the earth. Him it is I seek - who died for us. Him it is I desire - who rose for us. I am on the point of giving birth. . . . Let me receive pure light; when I shall have arrived there, then shall I be a man.578 1011 In death, God calls man to himself. Therefore the Christian can experience a desire for death like St. Paul's: "My desire is to depart and be with Christ. "579 He can transform his own death into an act of obedience and love towards the Father, after the example of Christ:580

My earthly desire has been crucified; . . . there is living water in me, water that murmurs and says within me: Come to the Father.581 I want to see God and, in order to see him, I must die.582

I am not dying; I am entering life.583

1012 The Christian vision of death receives privileged expression in the liturgy of the Church:584

Lord, for your faithful people life is changed, not ended. When the body of our earthly dwelling lies in death we gain an everlasting dwelling place in heaven.585 1013 Death is the end of man's earthly pilgrimage, of the time of grace and mercy which God offers him so as to work out his earthly life in keeping with the divine plan, and to decide his ultimate destiny. When "the single course of our earthly life" is completed,586 we shall not return to other earthly lives: "It is appointed for men to die once."587 There is no "reincarnation" after death.

1014 The Church encourages us to prepare ourselves for the hour of our death. In the ancient litany of the saints, for instance, she has us pray: "From a sudden and unforeseen death, deliver us, O Lord";588 to ask the Mother of God to intercede for us "at the hour of our death" in the Hail Mary; and to entrust ourselves to St. Joseph, the patron of a happy death.

Every action of yours, every thought, should be those of one who expects to die before the day is out. Death would have no great terrors for you if you had a quiet conscience. . . . Then why not keep clear of sin instead of running away from death? If you aren't fit to face death today, it's very unlikely you will be tomorrow. . . .589 Praised are you, my Lord, for our sister bodily Death, from whom no living man can escape. Woe on those who will die in mortal sin! Blessed are they who will be found in your most holy will, for the second death will not harm them.590

IN BRIEF

1015 "The flesh is the hinge of salvation" (Tertullian, De res. 8, 2:PL 2, 852). We believe in God who is creator of the flesh; we believe in the Word made flesh in order to redeem the flesh; we believe in the resurrection of the flesh, the fulfillment of both the creation and the redemption of the flesh.

1016 By death the soul is separated from the body, but in the resurrection God will give incorruptible life to our body, transformed by reunion with our soul. Just as Christ is risen and lives for ever, so all of us will rise at the last day.

1017 "We believe in the true resurrection of this flesh that we now possess" (Council of Lyons II: DS 854). We sow a corruptible body in the tomb, but he raises up an incorruptible body, a "spiritual body" (cf. 1 Cor 15:42-44).

1018 As a consequence of original sin, man must suffer "bodily death, from which man would have been immune had he not sinned" (GS § 18).

1019 Jesus, the Son of God, freely suffered death for us in complete and free submission to the will of God, his Father. By his death he has conquered death, and so opened the possibility of salvation to all men.

534 Cf. Jn 6:39-40. 535 Rom 8:11; cf. 1 Thess 4:14; 1 Cor 6:14; 2 Cor 4:14; Phil 3:10-11. 536 Cf. Gen 6:3; Ps 56:5; Isa 40:6. 537 Rom 8:11. 538 Tertullian, De res. 1,1:PL 2,841. 539 1 Cor 15:12-14. 540 2 Macc 7:9. 541 2 Macc 7:14; cf. 7:29; Dan 12:1-13. 542 Mk 12:24; cf. Jn 11:24; Acts 23:6. 543 Mk 12:27. 544 Jn 11:25. 545 Cf. Jn 5:24-25; 6:40,54. 546 Cf. Mk 5:21-42; Lk 7:11-17; Jn 11. 547 Mt 12:39. 548 Cf. Mk 10:34; Jn 2:19-22. 549 Acts 1:22; 10:41; cf. 4:33. 550 Cf. Acts 17:32; 1 Cor 15:12-13. 551 St. Augustine, En. in Ps. 88,5:PL 37,1134. 552 Jn 5:29; cf. Dan 12:2. 553 Lk 24:39. 554 Lateran Council IV (1215): DS 801; Phil 3:21; 2 Cor 15:44. 555 1 Cor 15:35-37,42,52,53. 556 St. Irenaeus, Adv. haeres. 4,18,4-5:PG 7/1,1028-1029. 557 Jn 6: 39-40,44,54; 11:24; LG 48 § 3. 558 1 Thess 4:16. 559 Col 2:12; 3:1. 560 Col 3:3; cf. Phil 3:20. 561 Eph 2:6. 562 Col 3:4. 563 1 Cor 6:13-15,19-20. 564 2 Cor 5:8. 565 Cf. Phil 1:23. 566 Cf. Paul VI, CPG § 28. 567 GS 18. 568 Rom 6:23; cf. Gen 2:17. 569 Cf. Rom 6:3-9; Phil 3:10-11. 570 Eccl 12:1,7. 571 Cf. Gen 2:17; 3:3; 3:19; Wis 1:13; Rom 5:12; 6:23; DS 1511. 572 Cf. Wis 2:23-24. 573 GS 18 § 2; cf. 1 Cor 15:26. 574 Cf. Mk 14:33-34; Heb 5:7-8. 575 Cf. Rom 5:19-21. 576 Phil 1:21. 577 2 Tim 2:11. 578 St. Ignatius of Antioch, Ad Rom.,6,1-2:Apostolic Fathers,II/2,217-220. 579 Phil 1:23. 580 Cf. Lk 23:46. 581 St. Ignatius of Antioch, Ad Rom.,6,1-2:Apostolic Fathers,II/2,223-224. 582 St. Teresa of Avila, Life, chap. 1. 583 St. Therese of Lisieux, The Last Conversations. 584 Cf. 1 Thess 4:13-14. 585 Roman Missal, Preface of Christian Death I. 586 LG 48 § 3. 587 Heb 9:27. 588 Roman Missal, Litany of the Saints. 589 The Imitation of Christ,1,23,1. 590 St. Francis of Assisi, Canticle of the Creatures.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Ecumenism; Mainline Protestant
KEYWORDS:
Religion Forum threads labeled “Ecumenical”

Ecumenical threads are closed to antagonism.

To antagonize is to incur or to provoke hostility in others.

Unlike the “caucus” threads, the article and reply posts of an “ecumenical” thread may discuss more than one belief, but antagonism is not tolerable.

More leeway is granted to what is acceptable in the text of the article than to the reply posts. For example, the term “gross error” in an article will not prevent an ecumenical discussion, but a poster should not use that term in his reply because it is antagonistic. As another example, the article might be a passage from the Bible which would be antagonistic to Jews. The passage should be considered historical information and a legitimate subject for an ecumenical discussion. The reply posts however must not be antagonistic.

Contrasting of beliefs or even criticisms can be made without provoking hostilities. But when in doubt, only post what you are “for” and not what you are “against.” Or ask questions.

Ecumenical threads will be moderated on a “where there’s smoke, there’s fire” basis. When hostility has broken out on an “ecumenical” thread, I’ll be looking for the source.

Therefore “anti” posters must not try to finesse the guidelines by asking loaded questions, using inflammatory taglines, gratuitous quote mining or trying to slip in an “anti” or “ex” article under the color of the “ecumenical” tag.

1 posted on 01/06/2013 3:34:56 PM PST by narses
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To: narses; Reaganite Republican; Clintons Are White Trash; HerrBlucher; mgist; raptor22; ...

A number of folks have asked about this, some with apparent sincerity. Here is the Catholic view (which I agree with, of course.)


2 posted on 01/06/2013 3:36:57 PM PST by narses
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To: narses; Reaganite Republican; Clintons Are White Trash; HerrBlucher; mgist; raptor22; ...

A number of folks have asked about this, some with apparent sincerity. Here is the Catholic view (which I agree with, of course.)


3 posted on 01/06/2013 3:37:26 PM PST by narses
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To: narses

Another great post. Thanks!


4 posted on 01/06/2013 4:12:39 PM PST by Steelfish (ui)
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To: narses

Many of the exegetists spoke of the resurrection of the body prior to the now widespread practice of cremation. I’d like to read more about this in terms of the resurrection of the body.


5 posted on 01/06/2013 4:14:54 PM PST by Steelfish (ui)
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To: Steelfish

My pleasure!


6 posted on 01/06/2013 4:46:41 PM PST by narses
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To: narses
1015 "The flesh is the hinge of salvation" (Tertullian, De res. 8, 2:PL 2, 852). We believe in God who is creator of the flesh; we believe in the Word made flesh in order to redeem the flesh; we believe in the resurrection of the flesh, the fulfillment of both the creation and the redemption of the flesh.

A number of folks have asked about this, some with apparent sincerity. Here is the Catholic view (which I agree with, of course.)

The Catholic view??? Here's God's view...Why would one chose the Catholic view over God's view???

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

7 posted on 01/06/2013 5:05:53 PM PST by Iscool
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To: Steelfish
Many of the exegetists spoke of the resurrection of the body prior to the now widespread practice of cremation.

Long before cremation became common in the west, death by fire (or the body being largely consumed by fire following death) was not uncommon.

There are those who consider cremation a desecration of God's creation, but the act has no impact upon the Lord's ability to resurrect the dead.

8 posted on 01/06/2013 5:07:55 PM PST by PAR35
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To: PAR35; narses

Yet the common understanding was that the “dead” physical body would be resurrected just as Christ’s dead physical body was raised.


9 posted on 01/06/2013 5:14:45 PM PST by Steelfish (ui)
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To: Iscool

The Catholic Church is the earthly Body of Christ founded by Christ and meant to preserve his teachings intact as a “common body” handed down to St.Peter, his apostles and their successors. This way we won’t have 32,000 different brands of Christianity from Joel Osteen to Bishop Jake. Oh, and I forgot the Mormons and Rev. Wright.


10 posted on 01/06/2013 5:19:31 PM PST by Steelfish (ui)
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To: narses

Westminster Confession of Faith, Chapter 32:

2. At the last day, such as are found alive shall not die, but be changed: and all the dead shall be raised up, with the selfsame bodies, and none other (although with different qualities), which shall be united again to their souls forever.

3. The bodies of the unjust shall, by the power of Christ, be raised to dishonor: the bodies of the just, by his Spirit, unto honor; and be made conformable to his own glorious body.

http://www.opc.org/wcf.html#Chapter_32


11 posted on 01/06/2013 5:46:25 PM PST by PAR35
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To: PAR35

Thanks!


12 posted on 01/06/2013 6:05:47 PM PST by narses
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To: Steelfish

Catholic cremation is explored in depth at: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04481c.htm


13 posted on 01/06/2013 6:06:55 PM PST by narses
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To: narses

Why would people want their bodies back?


14 posted on 01/06/2013 6:10:33 PM PST by stuartcr ("I upraded my moral compass to a GPS, to keep up with the times.")
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To: narses

Why would people want their bodies back?


15 posted on 01/06/2013 6:10:48 PM PST by stuartcr ("I upraded my moral compass to a GPS, to keep up with the times.")
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To: narses

The London Baptist Confession of 1689 (although no longer followed by most Baptists) tracks this language.


16 posted on 01/06/2013 7:10:17 PM PST by PAR35
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To: Steelfish

Let’s look at it in a specific context.

Who is more powerful, God or Adolf Hitler?

If a Christian was murdered in a concentration camp and then the body cremated, could the Nazis thus prevent God from resurrecting the body, as set out in Scriptures?

Many Catholics and Protestants may oppose cremation on various moral grounds -that isn’t the subject of this thread - but the bodily resurrection really shouldn’t be one of the bases for their argument.


17 posted on 01/06/2013 7:21:13 PM PST by PAR35
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To: stuartcr

It is part of the Bible teaching that at the end of the age, those who are believers will experience a resurection of the body that is glorified just like the Lord’s.


18 posted on 01/07/2013 2:30:01 PM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Biggirl

Do people want that? Where do people live after the age ends?


19 posted on 01/07/2013 3:55:54 PM PST by stuartcr ("I upraded my moral compass to a GPS, to keep up with the times.")
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To: Biggirl

Do people want that? Where do people live after the age ends?


20 posted on 01/07/2013 3:56:12 PM PST by stuartcr ("I upraded my moral compass to a GPS, to keep up with the times.")
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To: Iscool
What group do you belong to, that denies such a fundamental Christian doctrine as the resurrection of the body? That's a not just a "Catholic idea"; it's universally held by all of mainstream Christianity.

Read this article, from an assuredly non-Catholic source, and get back to us.

21 posted on 01/09/2013 8:14:55 PM PST by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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