'Another Jesus': Does it matter if Jesus is distorted @ hands of Mormon leaders? [Finale: Part IV]

Colofornian (Vanity) | Nov. 13, 2012 | Colofornian

[Lazamataz]

Wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle. BAM
Wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle. BAM
Wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle. BAM

[Colofornian]

She used to be a Mormon, thusly her anger

Better dust off that Zatamazalist urim & thummim you may use to crystal ball your environment...(Or is it a Zatamazalist Magic 8-ball?)

Tho, I'm descended from Mormons, 'twas never Mormon...thusly no "anger" issues that you falsely gossip about.

So whatever you use to try to inwardly judge the motivations of others has failed the "radar" test.

Hence, looks like Zatamazalism is an epic failure if it's attempting to convey ANY basic level of discernment.

[Lazamataz]

You are an angry ex-Mormon.

You shouldn't lie.

[reaganaut]

ok, Laz.

[Lazamataz]

See the video I posted. You will understand.

[reaganaut]

You are an angry ex-Mormon.

You shouldn’t lie.

- - - - - -
Sorry, Laz. Colo was never Mormon and he has stated that many times and based upon what he says, he is well researched but was never ‘part of the club’ like I was.

He isn’t lying, nor is he angry. Passionate, yes, but not angry.

[reaganaut]

In case you got confused, the ‘crazy idea’ that Sandy wanted to know where fishtank got that from was this...

Fishtank - The lds-org denies that Jesus is the Creator, that everything was created THROUGH Him, BY Him and FOR Him.

They deny that Jesus created even the angels out of nothing.

Sandy denies that and wanted to know where he got that idea.

My response was he got that idea that Jesus didn’t create out of nothing from LDS leaders.

Sandy is the one wiggling. The LDS Jesus and God CANNOT create from nothing, just organize matter and spirits.

[reaganaut]

The close captioning on that apparently sucked, sorry but I still don’t get it.

[Colofornian]

We believe that Jesus Christ is the Creator. Where did you get such a crazy idea in the first place. We believe that Jesus Christ is the Great Jehovah of the Old Testament and the Redeemer/Savior of the New Testament. All things were made by Him and nothing was made that was made but by Him.

ALL: This note by Saundra involves a "recipe" of a 1/2 cup of 1/2 truth mixed with a heavy dosage of a home-grown brand item that tries to pawn itself off as the "real thing"...

The smidgen of "truth" uttered here by Saundra is that, yes, Mormons say Jesus was "Creator"...and this is not only found in the Bible, but the "scriptures" exclusive to Mormonism.

What they don't tend to readily mention is these two things:

(1) Lds redefine the word "Creator" to mean "organizer"

They don't believe what the author of Hebrews called creation ex-nihilo (out of nothing) applies to their version of "Jesus" (or god, either). They don't believe Jesus -- or the Lds father-god -- had/has the power to create out of nothing. And this includes even people. Lds have a peculiar doctrine that spirits and intelligences are as eternal as anything divine. (This is found in D&C 93:29,33)

So, they say, you, me, the animal world, all of us...existed as "spirits" or "intelligences" from eternal past. We had no "we didn't exist" and "now we exist" moment.

So when a Mormon uses the word "create" -- they mean "organize", "design" or "arrange" ... but not literally create from nothing.

(2) While Saundra cites a portion of Colossians 1:16 -- "All things were made by Him and nothing was made that was made but by Him" -- what she fails to mention is that she doesn't believe that Jesus created or even "organized" Lucifer's jump-start as a spirit...nor anybody else's spirit.

Even tho spirits already existed, say Mormons; they have this weird doctrine that they underwent a second spirit jump-start when they were born to a god-mom and god-dad on a planet near the star Kolob. [And then, they say, we all had yet a third jump-start when we inhabited a body here on earth]

You see, Lds believe that Jesus as a spirit-creature was "spirit birthed" right before Lucifer and the rest...so, being Satan's spirit brother, the Mormon "jesus" could hardly have been his "creator."

So, when Saundra says "things" -- she likely means all "impersonal" things...and again, remember, even with "things" -- the Mormon god & the Mormon "jesus" were mere "organizers" of things...

[fishtank]

I post these graphics because:

(1) I have heard what former ldsers and what well-read researchers have said about lds beliefs., i.e. the lds believes that God did not create everything out of nothing.

(2) I have had CURRENT lds people tell me that what I am saying is true, but that I shouldn't say it, because they feel uncomfortable about discussing the issue and its implications.

(3) I believe that God's WORD is living and eternal and that He can use it to scrape away false doctrines from the souls of people.

(4) I post these because the false doctrines of human pre-existence and of eternal marriage are FALSE. They are useful hooks to get people to stay in the lds, but those doctrines are USELESS.

Why?

(A.) They diminish the creative power of God, that He created our spirits out of nothing, and

(B.) the eternal marriage doctrine defames and contradicts the teaching that Christians WILL be married in eternity. We will be married to Christ .... but NOT to each other.

[fishtank]

For the record,

I’m not ex-lds, either.

[Saundra Duffy]

I am a Mormon and you are preaching a FALSE doctrine about my Church. Just because you said it - doesn’t make it so. My personal Testimony of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is everything to me. My Church teaches that Jesus Christ is the Great Jehovah of the Old Testament and the Savior/Redeemer of the New Testament. Since Jesus Christ is the Great Jehovah of the Old Testament, then if A = B and B = C then A = C. Besides, Jesus Christ suffered and died for me. Amen.

[Saundra Duffy]

Blah blah blah. Same old anti Mormon/anti MormonISM stuff.

I have a Testimony - an unshakable Testimony - of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Creator, the Redeemer, Savior, Advocate with the Father, and Soon-Coming King.

I have no idea why this troubles some of you so very much. You’d think you’d be happy for me, that I have Jesus in my heart - that He suffered and died to save me from my sins.

But oh no you have to keep on with your silly activities as if you are obsessed with trashing my Church.

The Rev. Billy Graham ministry removed Mormons from their list of cults - so you were wrong about that, too. Or do you really propose to criticize the Rev. Billy Graham and pooh pooh his spiritual judgment? God help you if you do.

But cheer up, maybe you can get me banned again. Then you won’t have to be tormented by my Testimony and love for my Savior.

P.S. I used to be an anti Mormon, as you may know. I was surprised when I learned the Truth but it takes opening your mind and heart. I personally believe that so long as a person loves and confesses Jesus Christ and keeps the Commandments to the best of their abilities, that they are in good standing with the Savior. Jesus did not come to condemn us but to save us. I love Him so much!!!

[Godzilla]

uuuuuuh sd, your testimony doesn't address your objections. Care to REALLY try.

mormon teach 'god' created heavens and earth from pre-existing material (eternal).

“And then the Lord said: Let us go down. And they went down at the beginning, and they, that is the Gods, organized and formed the heavens and the earth. And the earth, after it was formed, was empty and desolate, because they had not formed anything but the earth; and darkness reigned upon the face of the deep, and the Spirit of the Gods was brooding upon the face of the waters. And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light; and there was light” (Abraham 4:1-3).

Now Sd, why does Jehovah say there is no other true God besides himself?

[Colofornian]

Then you won’t have to be tormented by my Testimony and love for my Savior.

(Saundra: Tell us: What did the Mormon "savior" "save" you from?)

And what can a Mormon "savior" "save" you from -- that is more or less than what a person who might "baptize" my dead spirit by proxy?

[reaganaut]

Beat me to it. Well exegeted.

[reaganaut]

When I was at BYU, I took a senior seminar on ‘topics in LDS theology’. The ENTIRE class was how God the Father was NOT omnipotent (could not create or destroy matter), NOT omnipresent (had a body of flesh and bones) and NOT Omniscient (because he was still progressing).

The end of the class was about the time I was starting to leave the LDS and I had to write a paper for the class and I remember the first line of my paper was “Well, YOUR God may not be Omnipotent, but MINE is” then did a biblical study on the the power of God debunking all I had learned in that class.

[reaganaut]

Ironically, the pre-1990 temple endowment had this bit about God, given by the ‘preacher’ hired by Lucifer to teach Adam and Eve about religion.

Do you believe in a God who is without body, parts, or passions; who sits on the top of a topless throne; whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere; who fills the universe, and yet is so small that he can dwell in your heart; who is surrounded by myriads of beings who have been saved by grace, not for any act of theirs, but by his good pleasure? Do you believe in such a great being?

http://ldsendowment.org/paralleltelestial.html (NOT an ‘anti site’ but put up by faithful LDS).

The irony is it is a pretty good description of the Christian view of God.

[reaganaut]

am a Mormon and you are preaching a FALSE doctrine about my Church. Just because you said it - doesn’t make it so.

- - - - -
Sandra it is what your CHURCH teaches and what your LDS scriptures TEACH. Are you saying that your prophets have taught false doctrine?? Did Joseph prophesy falsely? Just because you say that the LDS teach it, doesn’t make it true.

In a revelation given June 1, 1833, the Lord referred to himself as “the Lord of Sabaoth, which is by interpretation, the creator of the first day, the beginning and the end” (D&C 95:7; italics added). In a doctrinal exposition by the First Presidency and Twelve Apostles in 1916, the meaning of the term creator was explained: “The Creator is an Organizer. God created the earth as an organized sphere; but He certainly did not create, in the sense of bringing into primal existence, the ultimate elements of the materials of which the earth consists, for ‘the elements are eternal’ Jesus Christ, whom we also know as Jehovah, was the executive of the Father, Elohim, in the work of creation.... He is very properly called the Eternal Father of heaven and earth.” (MFP 5:26-27; see also Talmage, 32-41.) Ancient Apostles and prophets also understood this concept, such as John (John 1:3), King Benjamin (Mosiah 3:8), and Samuel the Lamanite (Hel. 14:12). Doctrines and Covenants Encyclopedia, Hoyt W. Brewster, 1996.

Mormons believe in a God that organizes pre-existing matter. He does not create matter. Matter can be neither created, nor destroyed. “There is no such thing as immaterial matter.” (D&C 131:7) Joseph taught that matter and intelligence (the thinking part of you) are eternal, meaning not created.

Joseph Smith claimed that God did not make the earth

“out of nothing; for it is contrary to a rashanall mind & reason that a something could be brought from a nothing.....this earth was organized or formed out of other planets which were broke up and remodelled and made into the one on which we live.” (”Rough Stone Rolling”; Bushman, p. 421; from “Words of Joseph”, journal entries of first-hand witnesses)

So, Sandy, apparently you are outside what your church and scriptures teach.

[reaganaut]

Blah blah blah. Same old anti Mormon/anti MormonISM stuff.

I have a Testimony - an unshakable Testimony - of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Creator, the Redeemer, Savior, Advocate with the Father, and Soon-Coming King.

I have no idea why this troubles some of you so very much.

The Rev. Billy Graham ministry removed Mormons from their list of cults - so you were wrong about that, too.

I personally believe that so long as a person loves and confesses Jesus Christ and keeps the Commandments to the best of their abilities, that they are in good standing with the Savior.

- - - - - -
IT isn’t anti-Mormon stuff it is called Truth.

What bothers us is you claim to believe one thing but that isn’t what your church teaches. False religion won’t get you to heaven. What bothers us is Mormons TAKE THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST IN VAIN and insult Him by claiming the cross wasn’t enough, the Bible is corrupt and GOD IS NOT OMNIPOTENT. What bothers us is that Mormons twist the Bible then claim to be the ‘only true church’.

Your comments are consistently contrary to LDS teaching and doctrine and you keep repeating the same things over and over again even after we PROVE that isn’t what your church teaches.

And I don’t buy you were ever an ‘anti-Mormon’. It doesn’t pass the sniff test.

And Billy Graham removed the ENTIRE list of cults, not just the LDS and that was political. Besides, Graham isn’t our prophet, he doesn’t speak for Christianity. He is a man and can and does make mistakes and even sin. His kow-towing to Romney doesn’t make us wrong, it makes Graham wrong.

And as Paul taught, if you think WORKS HAS ANYTHING to do with being saved, then grace is no longer grace but you are binding yourself to the ENTIRE MOSAIC LAW - so you better start keeping Kosher.

Also your statement about what you ‘personally believe’ isn’t Mormon doctrine either. If you are so opposed to Mormon doctrine, why are you Mormon?

If you truly loved Jesus, you would not be Mormon. Mormons but ‘the Church’ over Christ.