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Obama's Re-Election Sets up Two-Pronged Crisis for Church
Our Sunday Visitor ^ | 11/7/12 | Russell Shaw

Posted on 11/08/2012 7:08:40 AM PST by marshmallow

For the Catholic Church in the United States, the re-election of Barack Obama as president means serious trouble ahead – in fact, nothing less than an accelerating two-pronged crisis.

The first prong of the crisis is that Obama is expected to press policies favoring abortion, contraception and same-sex marriage even more aggressively and coercively in his second term than in his first.

The second prong is reflected in the fact that, according to CNN exit polls, 50 percent of the Catholics who voted backed Obama despite his well-publicized conflict with their Church, with 48 percent going for Republican challenger Mitt Romney.

Further analysis of the poll data is expected to produce the usual, predictable finding that Catholics who attend Mass regularly are substantially more likely to stand with the Church than Catholics who don't.

Future of mandate

In any case, Obama's re-election leaves him at liberty to move ahead with enforcing the famous Department of Health and Human Services mandate requiring Church-related institutions like colleges and universities, charities, and hospitals to provide abortifacient drugs, contraceptives and sterilizations via their employee health care plans.

The mandate, part of the implementation of the Affordable Care Act – otherwise known as Obamacare – is scheduled to go into effect for Church institutions Aug. 1, 2013. Cumulatively huge fines will be imposed on those that fail to comply.

Obama in the past has said he would provide some form of "accommodation" to religious groups who object to the mandate on moral grounds. But he hasn't done that yet, and even if he does, the affected institutions still face the prospect of having the employer-employee relationship serve as a vehicle for things the Church judges immoral.

Only the possibility of action by one or more courts staying the administration's hand now seems capable of preventing this.....

(Excerpt) Read more at osvdailytake.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: catholic

1 posted on 11/08/2012 7:08:43 AM PST by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow

Start purging heretics. It’s been overdue for decades.


2 posted on 11/08/2012 7:10:21 AM PST by Shadow44
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To: marshmallow

Not constitutional. RESIST.


3 posted on 11/08/2012 7:20:33 AM PST by noiseman (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.)
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To: marshmallow

There is another option....

drop benefits and raise pay accordingly..

make employees buy their own health insurance...


4 posted on 11/08/2012 7:23:10 AM PST by joe fonebone (The clueless... they walk among us, and they vote...)
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To: marshmallow

There is no bigger supporter of the welfare state and thus welfare state politicians and the Dem party than the Catholic bishops. They love this destructive system based on envy, jealousy, covetousness, bitterness and theft. They promote this all the time and then they say oh, no, don’t vote for pro-abortion candidates. Good luck with that. Choosing which sins are ok and which are not is kinda tricky business.


5 posted on 11/08/2012 7:23:52 AM PST by all the best (`~!)
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To: marshmallow

The Catholic Church has too many priests and nuns who believe in exactly what Obama does. The pope may say one thing but most Catholics do another. The Catholic Church is a huge believer in social justice. Sad to say but it is true.


6 posted on 11/08/2012 7:24:24 AM PST by HangingTuff
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To: marshmallow

The Catholic Church has too many priests and nuns who believe in exactly what Obama does. The pope may say one thing but most Catholics do another. The Catholic Church is a huge believer in social justice. Sad to say but it is true.


7 posted on 11/08/2012 7:24:37 AM PST by HangingTuff
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To: joe fonebone

Tammy Baldwin is going to go after the Knights of Columbus. She says we are a Hate Group.


8 posted on 11/08/2012 7:25:11 AM PST by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: Shadow44

a smaller more devout church would not be a bad thing I agree

I have always had trouble understanding why people who do not follow the tenants of the church would want to be catholic...why identify yourself with something you don’t believe in

A priest friend of mine once told me these people belong to the “just in case” crowd that they really don’t believe in Christ as Saviour and the Eucharist but they attend church now and then to assure their salvation just in case.


9 posted on 11/08/2012 7:25:41 AM PST by longfellowsmuse (last of the living nomads)
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To: marshmallow
I am supremely confident that the US bishops will find a way to accommadate themselves to the Obamacare abortion/contraception mandate.
10 posted on 11/08/2012 7:29:40 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the psychopath.)
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To: massgopguy

I was once a knight, many many moons ago...


11 posted on 11/08/2012 7:31:09 AM PST by joe fonebone (The clueless... they walk among us, and they vote...)
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To: noiseman

changed my tag line.


12 posted on 11/08/2012 7:33:31 AM PST by JCBreckenridge (They may take our lives... but they'll never take our FREEDOM!)
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To: noiseman

How many bishops, pastors, priests, and lay people will go to jail for it?

Not many. The Catholic Church has been paying for similar things in Europe for decades.


13 posted on 11/08/2012 7:33:42 AM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: redgolum

I will. Will any of you stand with me?


14 posted on 11/08/2012 7:36:06 AM PST by JCBreckenridge (They may take our lives... but they'll never take our FREEDOM!)
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To: joe fonebone

it is my (limited) understanding that this is not an option with obamacare. employers are now required by law to offer government approved health coverage or face ever increasing fines as a penalty.

would be very difficult to pay fines to the government and give pay raises...especially as the recession deepens


15 posted on 11/08/2012 7:42:04 AM PST by longfellowsmuse (last of the living nomads)
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To: longfellowsmuse
The only response to O’Bumbler is to CLOSE ALL THE CATHOLIC BASED ORGANIZATIONS.

Do not say anything, just one Tuesday morning have all the doors locked, put the sick from the hospitals out in the street and lock the doors.

Let O’Bumbler take care of them. Many will die, such is life for the ObamaBots.

16 posted on 11/08/2012 7:48:20 AM PST by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: Jim from C-Town

Obama would love nothing more than to shutter the church...then they can rely on him not the church

and it is not just hospitals it is catholic schools as well...

but...I take comfort that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the church of Christ


17 posted on 11/08/2012 7:52:56 AM PST by longfellowsmuse (last of the living nomads)
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To: longfellowsmuse

I have a better idea. Just shut all the Catholic hospitals down. Do not sell them. Just put out a notice that they will no longer be accepting new patients. Layoff all employees and watch how fast HHS has to back down. If all Catholic hospitals did this it would account for over 20% of the hospital in the US. It would not take long for the effects to be felt.


18 posted on 11/08/2012 7:52:56 AM PST by Angry_White_Man_Syndrome
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To: marshmallow

CT Catholics lost. And when you lose, it means your opponents are winning. So the Bishops and the rest of us got nobody to blame but ourselves.

They did not participate in the campaign. Only the discusssion of issues, no candidates. Ask for a show of hands at daily Mass. How many of you voted? Not much more than half.

And it would not be a landslide for Linda McMahon at any daily Mass that I attend. “Did not vote” gets more votes than Linda. I bet she barely wins the others and these are ... daily communicants.


19 posted on 11/08/2012 7:53:03 AM PST by campaignPete R-CT (campaigning for local conservatives)
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To: JCBreckenridge

I will also, though my wife said she will not in order to protect our child.


20 posted on 11/08/2012 7:55:20 AM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: longfellowsmuse
employers are now required by law to offer government approved health coverage or face ever increasing fines as a penalty. would be very difficult to pay fines to the government and give pay raises...especially as the recession deepens

I think the fines are much lower than the cost of health insurance... which is an intentional incentive to *not* offer insurance, as Obama wants to destroy all private health coverage in order to go to a single-payer system.

21 posted on 11/08/2012 8:00:20 AM PST by Sloth (Rather than a lesser Evil, I voted for Goode.)
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To: campaignPete R-CT

Out of curiosity what is the age of the daily communicants that did not vote?

I ask this because I have a hunch that this is an older crowd... that while devout they are looking toward Heaven ( as we all should be) and perhaps feel that since they are of a certain age they have lost interest in issues that affect future generations.

I only suggest this because I have heard my father (85) say this. Its the I won’t be around to see the effects of all this so I really don’t have an interest.

Clearly this is a terrible attitude to have...and I do not condone it. Just looking for answers I guess


22 posted on 11/08/2012 8:01:26 AM PST by longfellowsmuse (last of the living nomads)
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To: longfellowsmuse

The government couldn’t take care of them. They would be exposed as the idiots that they are.


23 posted on 11/08/2012 8:02:58 AM PST by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: Sloth

I admittedly don’t know exact numbers.... but my understanding is also that these fines are low but do increase over time and are per/employee. for a large institution like a large catholic hospital these could really add up


24 posted on 11/08/2012 8:05:31 AM PST by longfellowsmuse (last of the living nomads)
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To: HangingTuff

All Christians should support and believe in social justice. Just because it has been hijacked by so many in order to advance their political agenda does not mean legitimate social justice should be rejected.

True social justice has its foundation in the sanctity of life and the dignity of the human person. It rests its truths on He who is Truth, Jesus Christ our Lord. The care of the poor, the protection of the family and fairness to those who labor are not radically dangerous ideas. They are what build a just and prosperous society. Acts of Christian charity should advance these goals.

The conflict is when people believe it is solely the duty of government to take care of others. Government can help by having policies that do not hinder the charity of others and which help build strong families.

A government that supports abortion has already failed in that goal. A government that has jettisoned the true meaning of marriage has bastardized that goal. A government that encourages sloth instead of honest labor has shown they value a type of slavery above the true dignity of free men and women.

I get so tired of people criticizing the Church for believing in social justice. Criticize instead those who have twisted the idea to meet their own selfish ends.


25 posted on 11/08/2012 8:12:50 AM PST by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: marshmallow

Boo hoo. I guess the bishops forgot to tell their huge Mexican membership that perhaps 75% of them shouldn’t have voted for Obama.

Get out of the business of distributing government tax-payer-extorted freebies, and see how many real believers you have in those flocks.


26 posted on 11/08/2012 8:13:06 AM PST by txrefugee
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To: marshmallow
The first prong of the crisis is that Obama is expected to press policies favoring abortion, contraception and same-sex marriage even more aggressively and coercively in his second term than in his first.
 
The second prong is reflected in the fact that, according to CNN exit polls, 50 percent of the Catholics who voted backed Obama despite his well-publicized conflict with their Church, with 48 percent going for Republican challenger Mitt Romney.




27 posted on 11/08/2012 8:14:04 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: marshmallow

Setbacks for bishops

But the outcome is a bitter setback for Church leadership even so, considering that a number of bishops made pre-election statements saying or strongly implying that a Catholic could not vote in conscience for a pro-abortion candidate like Obama.

Along which much else, the result also is a blow to the bishops' religious liberty campaign, which was launched last year with the aim of focusing attention on threats to the First Amendment rights of religious institutions as well as the right of the Church to have a voice on matters of public policy.

28 posted on 11/08/2012 8:15:18 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: marshmallow
For the Catholic Church in the United States, the re-election of Barack Obama as president means serious trouble ahead ...

Sorry ... you get what you voted for.

29 posted on 11/08/2012 8:17:28 AM PST by dartuser ("If you are ... what you were ... then you're not.")
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To: marshmallow
Two other thoughts to hone our efforts as Warrior Catholics:

8 out of 10 white Protestants voted for Romney...95% of black Protestants voted for Obama...

6 out of 10 White Catholics voted for Romney...75% of Mexican Catholics voted for Obama...


30 posted on 11/08/2012 8:18:18 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: txrefugee

What about all the Black Protestants that voted for Obama? Are you going to talk to them too, boohoo?


31 posted on 11/08/2012 8:19:37 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

I think some of them will be very accomodating, and I actually think this will be the beginning of a schism in the Church, which is what Obama has been angling for all along.

Many Catholics and some bishops would be very happy to go along with a “Patriotic Catholic Church” ala China, and I think one of Obama’s constant objectives in appearing in Catholic settings (Notre Dame, for example), particularly after he had made them adapt to his wishes (removing the crucifix), was to show his control over the Church and to make himself the focus even of religion in this country. Don’t forget, the guy is crazy, and he’ll be even crazier in the next four years.

But I think, aside from his nuttiness, there are many Catholics who either don’t know and don’t understand Catholic moral teachings - because the bishops have been silent on these things for more than 40 years now - and those who simply don’t care. However, some of these people like to go and sing Marty Haugen songs and feel they’re part of some warm fuzzy entity, and they will be the members of the Patriotic Catholic Church once Obama has peeled off a bishop or two to make it “legit.” That might not be that hard: don’t forget that, of all the English bishops at the time of Henry VIII, only ONE remained faithful to the Church, and of course, he got beheaded for it.

My bishop is very good and very firm, but many of the priests under him are very lax, not very smart, not very well educated about the Faith, and not very faithful to the Church. These are mostly the older priests, but unfortunately, they have shaped two generations of Catholics in their image.

And then there are the other bishops. My bishop had an excellent letter read from the pulpit (which, of course, some of his priests refused to do). But then the bishops as a group came out with a bland, neutral statement that said Catholics were supposed to weigh the positives of each candidate (such as, did they support programs that “helped the poor”) and that the teaching of the Church was to be only one factor in forming their conscience about this. In other words, it was ok to vote for somebody who was a rabid supporter of abortion and opponent of the Church as long as he supported government freebies for some amorphous group that the bishops always refer to as “the poor.”

Somebody needs to give these bishops a wake-up call.


32 posted on 11/08/2012 8:26:07 AM PST by livius
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To: livius

I completely agree there is a schism coming.. I think this is a good thing. separating the wheat from the chaf so to say.... painful but necessary

what needs to be said is that “social Justice” ala Robin Hood is a direct violation of the commandment Thou shall not steal. government mandated wealth redistribution is theft. charity towards the poor is a matter of free will and graces flow from exercising our own choices not threats from the IRS. Illegal immigration is the same...people from other countries coming to steal the hard earned resources of americans..

don’t get me started on the other 9


33 posted on 11/08/2012 8:39:16 AM PST by longfellowsmuse (last of the living nomads)
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To: longfellowsmuse

no. It is the theologically-retarded ones. And the pious-prideful ones. Same thing.

“My kingdom is not of this world.”
“God is not interested in politics.”

That kind of thing. A religion that wants to divorce society.


34 posted on 11/08/2012 8:51:45 AM PST by campaignPete R-CT (campaigning for local conservatives)
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To: Salvation
Given the way polling data is careful to break black folks out as a separate religious group, there's really no way to get accurate data on how many Evangelicals, Independents, or any other category of Protestants voted for which candidate. Those black folks are theologically aligned with some block of Protestants, but rather than distributing them into those groups they just lump them into “Black Protestants” or some such. There are two black churches in this area who advertise that they're independent nondenominational Evangelical churches. Do you suppose they got counted as Evangelical voters or black voters?

That's why breaking down into groups and fighting one another over who is more “pure” does nothing except help keep people divided and unwilling to cooperate with one another to turn things around. If it suits the goals of the media and fascist democrats to include black folks in the Evangelical count, that's where they'll be in the polling data. If it suits the goals of those same folks to break them out separately, that's what they'll do.

I'm starting to think that's exactly the sort of categorizing numbers depending on the result you want that's behind reports of lower Evangelical and other Christian voter turnout.

The democrats are well versed in propaganda techniques and know exactly how to find the cracks they can drive wedges into in order to keep Christians divided and not cooperating. They also know which topics to constantly focus on so that they can suppress the number of their opponents that will bother to vote.

35 posted on 11/08/2012 9:01:48 AM PST by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Jim from C-Town
put the sick from the hospitals out in the street and lock the doors...

Putting aside the obvious unChristian and uncharitable aspect of abandoning those in need of care, what makes you think the feds won't make an eminent domain grab for the facilities?

36 posted on 11/08/2012 10:32:46 AM PST by PeevedPatriot ("A wise man's heart inclines him toward the right, but a fool's heart toward the left."--Eccl 10:2)
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To: PeevedPatriot

I figure that’s what King Barry has been hoping for all along, a chance to have the Federal government take over those hospitals. He may actually prefer that they close, though, because that fits in with their idea of cost reduction being the same thing as reducing available care.


37 posted on 11/08/2012 10:36:53 AM PST by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: PeevedPatriot
They can try, but they have to go to court. In the mean time the point is made.

The Catholic Church is built on the slain bodies of Martyred Saints, both known and unknown to history. ALL the martyrs of the Church where murdered by GOVERNMENTS. Weather Nero Caesar, Robespierre, Hitler, Mao, or any other number of authoritarians.

The harder the despots squeezed the Church, the larger and more powerful the Church became, over time. As they have modified and acquiesced to the secular modernity, they have become less influential. They have lost members to other, more strict theologies, or to no theology at all. The more they are 'inclusive' the less relevant they become.

38 posted on 11/08/2012 11:00:08 AM PST by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: marshmallow
I don't like to criticize the bishops but I think they missed an opportunity to publicize other problems with Obamacare that will impact Catholic institutions, laity, and people in lower income brackets. It isn't just the bishops though. Candidates in the last election cycle weren't talking about it. And neither are those presently in office.

Why are they behaving as if the mandate is the only risk they face? Obamacare makes it more risky to employ people in low income brackets because employer costs are based on household income. If a household member becomes eligible for a subsidy (for example a wife gets laid off and loses employer based coverage, lowering household income to meet subsidy threshhold) the husband's employer can be subject to a several thousand dollar penalty. Will the husband's employer pay additional taxes to continue employing him or lay him off too?

Beyond the employment discrimination issues, there are risks to employee privacy and the potential for arbitrary enforcement by a partisan/punitive administration. I think a lot of people with public pulpits missed the opportunity to make a case that this law discriminates against the lower income people it was supposed to help by penalizing employers-Catholic or otherwise-who'd like to give them a job. People unmoved by the religious liberty or forced payment for abortifacient argument may be open to hearing about incentives to discriminate that are built into the law. But no one talks about it.

Peace be with you. And may God help us all!

39 posted on 11/08/2012 11:41:01 AM PST by PeevedPatriot ("A wise man's heart inclines him toward the right, but a fool's heart toward the left."--Eccl 10:2)
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To: lastchance
Good points. It's another example of the democrat thugs hijacking a term so that any discussion of a given topic is bounded by their definitions rather than reality. Like “pro-choice”, it's something intended to avoid talking about the real underlying meaning of something.
40 posted on 11/08/2012 11:44:11 AM PST by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: livius
I think you're right. It seems to me there are an awful lot of people who claim to be Catholic but who have been trying to build a US Catholic Church that's Protestant in all but name and about like the Anglican Church has been, a part of the State.
41 posted on 11/08/2012 12:05:02 PM PST by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Rashputin
IMHO he wants hospitals to remain open but will seek cost reduction by mandating they accommodate walk-in abortion on demand (late term can't be done outpatient). Other cost cutting would include euthanasia on demand and/or whatever criteria IPAB and other obamacare bureaucrats come up with. That's on top of the disincentives (reduced payments and penalties) for treating various illnesses and patients that are being phased in. We need to be vigilant about what's happening because the alphabet media won't be drawing attention to it.

Peace be with you and stay healthy!

42 posted on 11/08/2012 12:31:57 PM PST by PeevedPatriot ("A wise man's heart inclines him toward the right, but a fool's heart toward the left."--Eccl 10:2)
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To: Jim from C-Town
I understand and appreciate your point. I'm guessing though that the obama administration is more aware than most catholic laity that many of our hospitals have become secularized in recent decades. Just as our colleges have. Some claim it's due to accepting government money (Medicare, Medicaid, etc) but I don't buy that argument. It'd be illegal to discriminate against those patients anyway. No, there are many organizations that contract with the feds to provide a service and remain essentially true to their mission. I think what's happened in Catholic hospitals is that many of the religious orders that founded them got out of the health care ministry and turned them over to organizations that haven't remained committed to Catholic health care principles. If our institutions survive this mess, it'd be nice if some of those orders resumed their former health care ministries, at least at an administrative level to reinvigorate and oversee adherence to Catholic health care principles in these facilities.

Peace be with you.

43 posted on 11/08/2012 12:45:08 PM PST by PeevedPatriot ("A wise man's heart inclines him toward the right, but a fool's heart toward the left."--Eccl 10:2)
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To: livius

Will be praying Psalm 109 from this day onwards.


44 posted on 11/08/2012 2:08:27 PM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: PeevedPatriot
They may be secularized, but they are owned by the Church.
45 posted on 11/08/2012 3:03:35 PM PST by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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