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Difficult Days Ahead for the Church?
Archdiocese of Washington ^ | 11/6/12 | Msgr. Charles Pope

Posted on 11/07/2012 6:17:28 AM PST by marshmallow

My remarks will be brief, since this is not a political blog, and I am not a political prognosticator. The American people and process have spoken. But a few remarks based on the election results, things I think of as undeniable facts for the Church, though you are free to offer any rebuttals.

1. The strained relationship between the Catholic Church in the Democratic party will continue and the strain will likely grow. The reasons for this are that the Democratic Party is increasingly aligning itself with positions that are in direct conflict with Catholic teaching. More of this in the following points.

2. Largely unrestricted abortion will continue unabated, as will funding for organizations such as Planned Parenthood, the chief provider of abortion in this country. Possible Supreme Court nominations will also feature pro-choice jurists. Likewise many Circuit and other Federal District Court judges will continue to be appointed who favor largely unrestricted abortion.

3. The homosexual agenda will continue to grow and receive increasing legal recognition and protection. This includes not only gay “marriage” but also, other issues in the Gay agenda such as adoption, and the general insistence that the Gay lifestyle be promoted in schools and other public settings. This will require Church opposition and generally embroil us in many public disputes. This may have continued even with a Romney win, but there will be fewer political hurdles for such agendas and the pace will be quicker.

4. The HHS mandate moves forward, untouched. Our religious liberty is in greater jeopardy. We’ll have to meet the administration in court. And while the legal basis for our grievance seems strong, recent experience in the courts has demonstrated that nothing is certain. Civil disobedience may be in our future.

5. Extreme debt seems likely to pile up. Well.......

(Excerpt) Read more at blog.adw.org ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: abortion; democrat; democrats; hhs; hhsmandate; homosexualagenda; morality; msgrcharlespope

1 posted on 11/07/2012 6:17:31 AM PST by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow

Boo hoo. With 75% of Hispanics voting for Obama, most of them Catholics, the church has no one to blame but themselves. Shut down Catholic Services and hospitals if you don’t want to pay for employees abortions. Because abortions are now a right, to be paid for by employers, period.

The Catholic church is one of the biggest supporters of illegal immigration, so they will reap what they have sown.


2 posted on 11/07/2012 6:21:53 AM PST by txrefugee
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To: marshmallow
Difficult Days Ahead for the Church?

Persecution of the church by the state. From the looks of the results, I'd surmise than many members of the church put union membership above church membership. Speaks volumes.

3 posted on 11/07/2012 6:22:43 AM PST by The Sons of Liberty (Enemy of the regime since 2008)
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To: The Sons of Liberty

Without the catholic vote, the son of a b wouldn’t have been elected the first time. I hope he taxes them out of existence.


4 posted on 11/07/2012 6:25:17 AM PST by Segovia
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To: marshmallow

The bishops brought this upon us. Decades of coddling openly-heretical, defiant, dissenting Dammocrap (and, in recent years, some Republican) politicians. Buying into cultural and economic Marxism. Execrable catechesis of the laity for decades and decades. Sheltering thousands of child-molesting priests, thus, at once, committing the murder of the souls of uncounted Catholics, creating scandal and division within the laity, disaffecting millions of lay Catholics. They are to blame. It is their crime.

But, just like with the priest-molestor scandal, we the laity will pay.


5 posted on 11/07/2012 6:29:03 AM PST by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: marshmallow

The Catholic Church’s flirtations with liberation theology based social teaching has caused this mess in the Catholic conscience. This is also pervasive in other sects in the faith. This is a painful lesson from God to purge the leaven of this false teaching from our midst.


6 posted on 11/07/2012 6:29:26 AM PST by DarthVader (Politicians govern out of self interest, Statesmen govern for a Vision greater than themselves)
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To: All

Anybody know what the breakdown was for Catholic voters this time? I’m considering stopping my weekly contributions until the hierarchy whips some things into shape.


7 posted on 11/07/2012 6:30:21 AM PST by mmichaels1970
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To: Segovia

As a Catholic, the church has also alienated the center right moderates like me as well. When you look at how the sexual abuse situation was handled, coupled with the extreme position the Church has against women - not allowing them to become priests and/or as a compromise even allow male priests to marry (which they did up to 1000 AD), then many not just Dems throw up their hands. The Catholic Church survival relies on women (they are the ones who drive decisions on whether kids go private or public school and whether to go to Church on Sunday). My wife has become disillusioned with Catholic Church - hence we go to non-denominational one now.


8 posted on 11/07/2012 6:30:21 AM PST by GerardKempf (Let's Get Over This)
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To: txrefugee
Shut down Catholic Services and hospitals if you don’t want to pay for employees abortions.

That is exactly what the marxist want so they can take over operation of the hospitals "for the benefit of the middle class".

9 posted on 11/07/2012 6:31:10 AM PST by oldbrowser
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To: Segovia
Without the catholic vote, the son of a b wouldn’t have been elected the first time. I hope he taxes them out of existence.

You know, as a muslim, Barry Benghazi could accomplish two things by doing that. He could effectively remove a barrier to muslim domination, and he could fill the coffers for more "income redistribution".

10 posted on 11/07/2012 6:32:25 AM PST by The Sons of Liberty (Enemy of the regime since 2008)
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To: Segovia

Protestants put him in office. Catholics were still very much a minority then as now compared to the total population.


11 posted on 11/07/2012 6:34:34 AM PST by vladimir998
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To: DarthVader
The Catholic Church’s flirtations with liberation theology based social teaching has caused this mess in the Catholic conscience.

this is also true of most of the Christian churches. The ones that didn't vote for Obama didn't vote at all.

12 posted on 11/07/2012 6:35:44 AM PST by oldbrowser
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To: GerardKempf
coupled with the extreme position the Church has against women - not allowing them to become priests

LOL. Take it up with Jesus.

13 posted on 11/07/2012 6:36:04 AM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Viva Christo Rey!)
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To: oldbrowser

I said that too.


14 posted on 11/07/2012 6:40:31 AM PST by DarthVader (Politicians govern out of self interest, Statesmen govern for a Vision greater than themselves)
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To: sitetest
The bishops brought this upon us. Decades of coddling openly-heretical, defiant, dissenting Dammocrap (and, in recent years, some Republican) politicians. Buying into cultural and economic Marxism. Execrable catechesis of the laity for decades and decades.

True.

What then must WE do?

1) Be active in your parish.

2) Get your kids out of the godless communist schoolags, and teach them yourself at home. God made PARENTS a child's primary educators, not the State. We will have to answer to Him for our stewardship.

15 posted on 11/07/2012 6:40:45 AM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Viva Christo Rey!)
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To: marshmallow

In my view, the Church just decided with this election to start “informing” parishioners about the immorality of the Democratic platforms. It should have started 30 years ago, even 20 years ago, but no, they were so enthralled with Dems like Pelosi & Kennedy that they didn’t dare speak out. They were quiet for too long.

Sanctity of life was just a talking point, not something they really cared about...at least not enough to start instructing people about it. The Church began sending confusing messages. The left has been pushing for the Church to change its stance on abortion, pre-marital sex, and gay marriage for a long time. This election is the first they began to fight back. Too little too late.

Until the Church decides to publicly denounce politicians who preserve the left’s agenda, it will continue to falter when trying to get an electorate to listen when it’s convenient. JMHO. I’m so sorry that I feel this way. The devil seems to be winning right now, but I take solace in knowing that Christ won the ultimate battle for all of us.


16 posted on 11/07/2012 6:42:04 AM PST by FamiliarFace
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To: oldbrowser

Bullcrap.

There isn’t a “liberation theology” in protestant churches because there are almost no protestant churches in South America, where liberation theology got it’s first hold.

I’ve been in several protestant churches as a guest, and the only church in which I could say I honestly heard something approaching “liberation theology” was the Unitarian Church, which is notoriously left-wing since the 60’s.


17 posted on 11/07/2012 6:43:42 AM PST by NVDave
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To: marshmallow

I hope the Catholic Church gets everything they deserve.

Which is to burn in hell.


18 posted on 11/07/2012 6:44:54 AM PST by NVDave
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To: GerardKempf

You have no idea of what you’re talking about:

“the extreme position the Church has against women - not allowing them to become priests”

That’s Jesus’ “extreme position”.

“and/or as a compromise even allow male priests to marry (which they did up to 1000 AD),”

Never happened. Married men were allowed to be ordained. Ordained men did NOT marry. There’s a huge difference there. Even today married men can be ordained in some circumstances. Ordained men, however, cannot marry.

“then many not just Dems throw up their hands.”

Because they have the same apparent ignorance as you do.

“The Catholic Church survival relies on women (they are the ones who drive decisions on whether kids go private or public school and whether to go to Church on Sunday). My wife has become disillusioned with Catholic Church - hence we go to non-denominational one now.”

And that “non-denominational” sect hasn’t made you any smarter about what the Church is, what she does, or why she does it. Have you ever even tried to read the Catechism of the Catholic Church? Ever even listen to one Scott Hahn talk? http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=scott+hahn&oq=scott+hahn&gs_l=youtube.3..0l10.1838.3656.0.4012.10.8.0.1.1.0.375.1810.0j4j1j3.8.0...0.0...1ac.1.9y_2tVKDuUo

Ignorance is avoidable. It just takes some work.


19 posted on 11/07/2012 6:45:07 AM PST by vladimir998
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To: DarthVader

Very well said. You’ve stated my thoughts exactly.


20 posted on 11/07/2012 6:47:28 AM PST by FamiliarFace
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To: GerardKempf

Considering women were happy to carry the worst failure of a president over the finish line, not once but twice. All in the name of protecting the “right” to butcher babies and the “right” to screw whoever they want and get free birthcontrol; I think i’ll pass on giving women any authority in the church.


21 posted on 11/07/2012 6:48:26 AM PST by Howdyneighbor
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To: NVDave

Actually mainstream Protestant sects are rife with Liberation Theology: http://www.pubtheo.com/page.asp?pid=1423

Notice how all the quotes cited in this article go back to the 1970s: http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=1832


22 posted on 11/07/2012 6:52:05 AM PST by vladimir998
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To: marshmallow

Evangelical vote stayed home. Majority of white women broke for Obama. President Obama 15-point lead among all Catholic voters.


23 posted on 11/07/2012 6:52:11 AM PST by navysealdad (http://drdavehouseoffun.com/)
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To: sitetest

I agree completely.

Don’t forget how silent they were when Terri Schindler Schiavo was being murdered by judicial fiat. Not a peep from them then either. I remember being amazed that my priest only spoke up about the sanctity of life AFTER she passed. Nothing beforehand. I still shake my head in shame about that.


24 posted on 11/07/2012 6:53:28 AM PST by FamiliarFace
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
Dear St_Thomas_Aquinas,

1 - Been there, done that, didn't even get a t-shirt. What we do from the bottom up has little effect on the effete, stalinist, incompetent hierarchy.

2 - Homeschooled my sons through 8th grade, sent ‘em to a decent Catholic high school with an actual Catholic identity. They have learned/are learning to be warriors for God. I've sent the older one out into the world, to college, as prepared as I could make him to fight the good fight. We speak often, explicitly, about the battle in which he is now engaged. Fortunately, where he is, there are other awake, knowledgeable Catholics who also know we're in a fight.

I'll add a third:

3 - Eliminate all monetary support for the formal church. Focus on giving your money to decent Catholic educational institutions NOT under the control of the bishop, and pro-life organizations, especially those that specifically and directly aid women in crisis pregnancy.


sitetest

25 posted on 11/07/2012 6:54:01 AM PST by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: NVDave

I was referring to the social justice that most christian churches support. Social justice is another word for socialism and socialism is an other word for collectivism. Liberation theology is staple of black churches. I should have been more explicit.


26 posted on 11/07/2012 6:59:16 AM PST by oldbrowser
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To: oldbrowser

Liberation theology has it’s roots in a roster of marxist nostrums peddled by a South American priest of the Catholic Church... which got warped into the twaddle peddled by some black churches in the US.

The core of it’s appeal loses a whole lot when one tries to peddle it to a bunch of shiny happy white folks in suburban America ... mostly because quite a lot of liberation theology is invested in blaming whitey for their ills.


27 posted on 11/07/2012 7:06:52 AM PST by NVDave
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To: FamiliarFace

Exactly.

The trope that the Catholic Church cares about the sanctity of life is a very convincing bit of propaganda on their part... because then you look at the actual instances where they could have stood tall... they were nowhere to be seen.


28 posted on 11/07/2012 7:09:19 AM PST by NVDave
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To: marshmallow

I’m sorry....but the Church has brought this upon themselves.

The response of the hierarchy to the Obamacare mandate has been nothing short of pathetic. Obama got right in their faces and delivered a shot to the solarplexus, and they did not even have the guts to take to the pulpits and tell the people in plain, direct language that a vote to re-elect him was tantamount to a mortal sin.

Instead we got cryptic references to web links where we could go and read a statement from the Bishops. And a muddled, confused Voters Guide which seemed to lump the mandate and tax-paid abortions in on an equal footing with immigration amnesty and “social justice”.

They’ve gone along with this program silently in Europe for decades, and I guess I should have expected that from them here. They’d rather that than risk offending Hispanics and union hacks who put into the collection basket, apparently.


29 posted on 11/07/2012 7:45:30 AM PST by Buckeye McFrog
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To: txrefugee
Some members of the Catholic church is one of the biggest supporters of illegal immigration, so they will reap what they have sown.

Fixed it for you.

30 posted on 11/07/2012 8:00:58 AM PST by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: marshmallow
My remarks will be brief, since this is not a political blog, and I am not a political prognosticator. The American people and process have spoken.

To those in the Catholic Church who voted conservative, and to the bishops who exhorted Catholics to do so, thank you.

31 posted on 11/07/2012 8:01:12 AM PST by Alex Murphy ("If you are not firm in faith, you will not be firm at all" - Isaiah 7:9)
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To: GerardKempf
As a Catholic, the church has also alienated the center right moderates like me as well. My wife has become disillusioned with Catholic Church - hence we go to non-denominational one now.

I am sorry to ell you that you are not a moderate catholic, you are a liberal protestant, and it is a good thing that you made the decision to leave. I hope that upon prayerful reflection you will see the error of your ways and come home again.

32 posted on 11/07/2012 8:07:00 AM PST by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: Alex Murphy

Thank you Alex.


33 posted on 11/07/2012 8:12:32 AM PST by Shark24
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To: sitetest
3 - Eliminate all monetary support for the formal church. Focus on giving your money to decent Catholic educational institutions NOT under the control of the bishop, and pro-life organizations, especially those that specifically and directly aid women in crisis pregnancy.

Good idea.

34 posted on 11/07/2012 9:08:56 AM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Viva Christo Rey!)
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To: GerardKempf
As a Catholic

hence we go to non-denominational one now.

You're no Catholic, gerry.

35 posted on 11/07/2012 10:06:02 AM PST by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: marshmallow

Not surprising since the Catholic “religion” is blind to so many Biblical truths.


36 posted on 11/07/2012 10:07:02 AM PST by crosshairs (America: Once the land of the free. Still the home of the brave.)
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To: Segovia

You can’t blame ALL Catholics here, please.

Blame the CINOs all you want.

And why are you wishing evil on people? Don’t you know what the Bible says about that? It will come back to bite you, right?


37 posted on 11/07/2012 10:14:50 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: sitetest

We can have heart with the new Bishops that Pope Benedict is putting in place.

Keep praying. God’s vote isn’t counted yet!


38 posted on 11/07/2012 10:20:09 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NVDave

Are you a Christian? Why do you wish evil upon people?


39 posted on 11/07/2012 10:21:20 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
Dear Salvation,

The Holy Father has a limited pool from which to draw. Unfortunately, that pool is more limited in many ways than one would like.


sitetest

40 posted on 11/07/2012 10:26:02 AM PST by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: marshmallow

People have pondered whether Hurricane Sandy and other natural disasters were judgements of God on America have ignored the real judgement upon America - 0bama. At least 4 more years of judgement upon all sectors of America starting first at the moral foundations of the country - the church.


41 posted on 11/07/2012 10:26:05 AM PST by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: NVDave
Are you a Christian? Why do you wish evil upon people?

From a Baptist site:

Proverbs 24:17

“Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, And let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth.” This deals with our attitudes toward enemies: we are not to take delight in any evil that befalls any, for it is only the grace of God that prevents it from coming upon us. “Not only are we not to exult in a more severe calamity, but not even in a lighter one of an enemy. The notion is false that the Old Testament does not prescribe love of enemies,” [Faussett]. The Christian is to overcome evil with good, (Rom. 12:18-21). Exulting over the problems of an enemy generally stems from a self-righteous spirit. David set a good example in this when he mourned over Saul’s death, though Saul had often mistreated him, (2 Sam. 1:17ff). By contrast, See Obadiah 12.
 

Proverbs 24:23

 “These things also belong to the wise. It is not good to have respect of persons in judgment.” Here are more wise maxims, these showing the other side of the matter. “As subjects must do their duty, and be obedient to magistrates, so magistrates must do their duty in administering justice to their subjects. They must always weigh the merits of a cause, and not be swayed by any regard, one way or the other, to the parties concerned,” [M. Henry]. Note carefully the application that is made of having respect of persons: it is not good in matters of judgment, and this is consistently the application that is made in the Bible when God is said to be no respecter of persons. We all have the right, and exercise it, to respect persons in the choice of friends, mates, etc., and God does also. In redemption He always has respect of persons, (Gen. 4:4; Ex. 2:25). Election is the sovereign choice of some persons and the leaving of others in their self-chosen state of sin.

 

Proverbs 24:29

“Say not, I will do so to him as he hath done to me: I will render to the man according to his work.” This is the golden rule in reverse. It is revenge’s law of malice and hate. Revenge does not belong to us, but to the Lord, (Prov. 20:22; Lev. 19:18; Deut. 32:35; Rom. 12:19). “If there be occasion to bring an action or information against thy neighbor, let it not be from a spirit of revenge. Even a righteous cause becomes unrighteous when it is prosecuted with malice,” [M. Henry]. It is common for men to want “to get even” when someone has done them wrong, or when they believe someone has. But even if there truly has been a wrong done, to get even by doing evil to them would require one’s stepping down to his level. To return good for evil, which God requires, is to keep on a much higher level, and is to be like God.


42 posted on 11/07/2012 10:37:11 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Alex Murphy

Thank you again!


43 posted on 11/07/2012 10:46:49 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: All
The rest of the article -- since this site does not need to be excerpted.

5. Extreme debt seems likely to pile up. Well this may not be a specific issue the Catholic Church has spoken to, it remains a fact that we spend money we do not have, and this has moral implications. Little change in a very divided Congress, means there will be likely little progress in arresting a runaway debt. This will become an increasing moral problem that the Church will likely have to address at some level. This too draws us into the morass of debates about spending priorities etc. and may divide us as a Church between fiscal conservatives and those who emphasize the Social Doctrine.

Thus, the next years ahead, will likely draw the Church into increasing conflict with the political scene in general, and the Democratic Party specifically.

And while it is not the instinct to the Church to be drawn into one side of the political debate, moral issues are increasingly demanding from us an unambiguous stance, one which draws us into increasing conflict with the Democratic Party on issues which we consider non-negotiable. At the same time, issues that we may share with the Democratic Party, are less doctrinal or certain for us. We face difficult days ahead, and difficult decisions about strategy and how to engage a party in power that is increasingly at odds with our most central tenants.

The Central question for us is, How will the Church be able to articulate her positions, increasingly at odds with the platform of the Democratic party and be able to resist the (unfair) charge that we are merely the Republican Party at prayer. There are difficult days ahead for the Church.

Let us pray for great courage and prudence.


44 posted on 11/07/2012 10:50:23 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

Because when supposedly holy and sanctimonious people bugger little children, I tend to become quite unforgiving.

And the Catholic church loves pederasts and pedophiles. They’re still protecting one: Cardinal Barnard Law.


45 posted on 11/07/2012 12:34:05 PM PST by NVDave
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To: NVDave

ALL Protestant denominations - 838 Ministers

147 Baptist Ministers

251 "Bible" Church Ministers (fundamentalist/evangelical)

140 Anglican/Episcopalian Ministers

38 Lutheran Ministers

46 Methodist Ministers

19 Presbyterian Ministers

197 various Church Ministers


46 posted on 11/07/2012 12:39:30 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: A.A. Cunningham

I am a baptised, confirmed and married in the Catholic Church you arse. So according to my Catholic card, I’m just as Catholic as you are. Where I attend Sabbath is not specified in the bible. Granted I don’t take communion when I am at Catholic church out of deference. However doesn’t prevent me from going to church. Rather only the Opus Dei conceived dogma that is bankrupting the Catholic church.
Remember St Peter the Apostle (the founder of the Church) was himself married


47 posted on 11/07/2012 12:48:58 PM PST by GerardKempf (Let's Get Over This)
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To: Salvation

An order of magnitude under what has been reported from within the Catholic church.

And that’s just the US. Add in Ireland, Germany, et al and there is really no contest.


48 posted on 11/07/2012 12:58:30 PM PST by NVDave
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To: Running On Empty

marking


49 posted on 11/08/2012 4:36:47 AM PST by Running On Empty (The three sorriest words: "It's too late")
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