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To: boatbums

The pope who who he was dealing with, and not just Hitler. He was nuncio for 13 years in Munich, and for a time nuncio to Germany. The heart of this Germany was Prussia, historically Protestant and since unification, strongly anti-Roman. Renouncing Hitler at any time would have put the MINORITY of German Catholics who opposed him at risk, by dividing a Catholic community among whom Hitler was very popular. After the war started, and into 1942, Germany was winning the war in Europe. The defeats at Stalingrad and El Alaimein did not turn things around, but only stopped his momentum. The savage allied bombings did not break the will of the Germans but made their attachment to the regime that much stronger. Nazi propoganda was very effective, not only in Germany but everywhere in occupied Europe. Pivotal in this was the presence and the speeches of Goerbbels. Try reading his speeches sometimes. They are very powerful, especially as Hitler no longer addressed the nation but was devoted to the prosecution of the war, and was presented as so doing. Now try to understasnd how hard it would have been to pass on any papal denunciation of “Der Fuhrer,” Broadcasts were jammed. All information from without wss treated as suspect. If it were believed, even then the message would have rejected by many. I mean, if Americans Catholics will not listento papal denunciations of abortion, what makes you think tat even Germany Catholics would have put the Church before their country?


40 posted on 10/24/2012 10:32:45 PM PDT by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: RobbyS
if Americans Catholics will not listen to papal denunciations of abortion, what makes you think that even Germany Catholics would have put the Church before their country?

Thanks for the answer and a history lesson, too! Now, to your last point, I think THAT is the whole point I was trying to make. Shouldn't ALL Christians put God's will and righteousness ahead of country loyalty? Wouldn't Pius' public excommunication of Hitler, which would include the reasons WHY he was to be dealt with this way, have forced Germany's Catholics to take a stand for justice and holiness? Isn't that what Church leaders are supposed to do? Put God above ALL else?

When German citizens started learning about the Jewish persecution and genocide that was going on by command of their own leaders, would it not have been the absolute BEST time for all Christians to stand together with the Jewish-German population and demand these actions to be stopped? What would have happened with the war had there been a united CHRISTIAN front opposed to the atrocities? Would Hitler have continued his "master plan" or just maybe would he have been forced to end it? By the Catholic Germans as well as the Pope standing by doing nothing, they gave tacit agreement for the acts to continue.

Sure Goebbels was a charismatic and convincing speaker - so was the devil - but for those steeped in Scripture and led by the Holy Spirit, his words would sound hollow and their eyes would have been opened to the devious designs and plans. The Germans to this day regret what they allowed to happen. Even people who were not even born when this all happened are STILL embarrassed by it. It will be a burden that they carry for decades more.

What's done is done, but we all must stand together to confront the Holocaust of our day - abortion - and we WILL answer to God if we stand back and do nothing to stop it. It seems every generation or two has just such challenges. For America it was religious liberty against loyalty to a king. Then it was slavery against the rights of ALL to live free. Today, it is abortion - the secret holocaust that has been swept under the rug of "women's rights" and "reproductive freedom". If we Christians stand by and allow this unspeakable evil to continue, if we Christians continue to elect lawmakers who assure its continuance, then we are NO different than slavers and murderers. There WILL be a judgment seat, there WILL be a reckoning, God WILL judge righteously.

I hope you have a good night. I'm signing off for today.

43 posted on 10/24/2012 11:14:27 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: RobbyS
The pope who who he was dealing with, and not just Hitler. He was nuncio for 13 years in Munich, and for a time nuncio to Germany. The heart of this Germany was Prussia, historically Protestant and since unification, strongly anti-Roman. Renouncing Hitler at any time would have put the MINORITY of German Catholics who opposed him at risk, by dividing a Catholic community among whom Hitler was very popular. After the war started, and into 1942, Germany was winning the war in Europe. The defeats at Stalingrad and El Alaimein did not turn things around, but only stopped his momentum. The savage allied bombings did not break the will of the Germans but made their attachment to the regime that much stronger. Nazi propoganda was very effective, not only in Germany but everywhere in occupied Europe. Pivotal in this was the presence and the speeches of Goerbbels. Try reading his speeches sometimes. They are very powerful, especially as Hitler no longer addressed the nation but was devoted to the prosecution of the war, and was presented as so doing. Now try to understasnd how hard it would have been to pass on any papal denunciation of “Der Fuhrer,” Broadcasts were jammed. All information from without wss treated as suspect. If it were believed, even then the message would have rejected by many. I mean, if Americans Catholics will not listento papal denunciations of abortion, what makes you think tat even Germany Catholics would have put the Church before their country?

I heard the Eskimos didn't do enough to stop the holocaust either.

66 posted on 10/25/2012 10:52:26 AM PDT by Hacksaw (I'll take the Mormon over the Moron.)
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