Posted on 10/24/2012 3:30:46 PM PDT by NYer
What happens on the non-Catholic side? Are pro-abort Methodist/Baptist/whatever politicians denied communion?
Pete: You are Catholic. I am Catholic. Len Suzio is Catholic. Tom Scott was raised Catholic (don’t know if he still is). We’ve all been involved in a lot of campaigns. I no longer get involved for otherwise unacceptable candidates who might be a smidgeon better than their opponents but no more than a smidgeon. That is the avoidance of the near occasion of sin. That would be a theological issue.
Thanks for the answer and a history lesson, too! Now, to your last point, I think THAT is the whole point I was trying to make. Shouldn't ALL Christians put God's will and righteousness ahead of country loyalty? Wouldn't Pius' public excommunication of Hitler, which would include the reasons WHY he was to be dealt with this way, have forced Germany's Catholics to take a stand for justice and holiness? Isn't that what Church leaders are supposed to do? Put God above ALL else?
When German citizens started learning about the Jewish persecution and genocide that was going on by command of their own leaders, would it not have been the absolute BEST time for all Christians to stand together with the Jewish-German population and demand these actions to be stopped? What would have happened with the war had there been a united CHRISTIAN front opposed to the atrocities? Would Hitler have continued his "master plan" or just maybe would he have been forced to end it? By the Catholic Germans as well as the Pope standing by doing nothing, they gave tacit agreement for the acts to continue.
Sure Goebbels was a charismatic and convincing speaker - so was the devil - but for those steeped in Scripture and led by the Holy Spirit, his words would sound hollow and their eyes would have been opened to the devious designs and plans. The Germans to this day regret what they allowed to happen. Even people who were not even born when this all happened are STILL embarrassed by it. It will be a burden that they carry for decades more.
What's done is done, but we all must stand together to confront the Holocaust of our day - abortion - and we WILL answer to God if we stand back and do nothing to stop it. It seems every generation or two has just such challenges. For America it was religious liberty against loyalty to a king. Then it was slavery against the rights of ALL to live free. Today, it is abortion - the secret holocaust that has been swept under the rug of "women's rights" and "reproductive freedom". If we Christians stand by and allow this unspeakable evil to continue, if we Christians continue to elect lawmakers who assure its continuance, then we are NO different than slavers and murderers. There WILL be a judgment seat, there WILL be a reckoning, God WILL judge righteously.
I hope you have a good night. I'm signing off for today.
Well said, boatbums. Deuteronomy 21:1-9 tells us that God does not hold a community guilty for the immoral actions of an individual, if that community takes appropriate actions to separate themselves from said behavior (e.g. excommunication). The Catholic church has a Canon Law requiring the bishop to refuse communion to pro-abort politicians (Canon 915), but most bishops refuse to enforce the Canon against even the most egregious pro-death pols. What does Deuteronomy 28:15-66 say that God will do to the community that refuses to separate itself from the willfully immoral member?
Germany was somewhat more Catholic than we are, in numbers. But, again, many would not have seen the matter so clearly as you think, and many more were already cautious because boldest leaders had already been thrown into concentration camps. The plot in Army was much more powerful and better organized than the Church, yet it was hesitant to proceed. A denunciation of the regime by a foreign pope would have been portrayed as that of the puppet of foreign leaders. Note how hard it is to get “the word” out to a population ignorant of the failures our OUR regime, and consider how hard it would have been to spread the word in a country almost devoid of media not chained by the government. Only a totally stupid act, such as the destruction of Rome by the Germans MIGHT have stirred Catholic hearts, even by the strong rumor of it. But the ret
reating Germans did not, just as they did not destroy Paris.
You are amazed that the blind do not see?
Obama talks a good game. And she is confused by the ambiguous postures of the USCCB. They hammer Obamacare but then they denounce Ryan’s budget. The former is a statute, the latter a proposal, but it threatens funds on which they have become dependent. Typically short-sighted, they see the dagger in the left hand but are beguilded by the coin in the right.
Southern Baptist is the second largest denomination in America, second to the Catholic, but I don’t think that they do Communion, they are strongly pro-life though and voted 80% republican in 2008, while the Catholics voted 45% pro-life republican in that election.
I believe Baptists do celebrate communion, but let’s try the question this way:
Do Baptist preachers refuse baptism to pro-abortion politicians?
I wonder about the question here, on its foundation. How does one ex-communicate someone who is willingly not in communion?
Hitler long since stop coming to Mass or participating in any of the sacraments. It would be like telling someone they couldn’t go somewhere they never went or wanted to go.
LOL. yep. The rank ‘n file.
Hot race in Manchester. very close.
Went to a church event TUES nite at big RC Church downtown ... conservative Catholics. Interested in the issues. Oblivious to the fact there’s an election going on in their town. It would surprise if I had run into anything other than oblivious.
One of their own ... an alum of their parochial school ... pro-family GOPer. He’ll win without them. Maybe. same deal in other towns. Gun clubs are prob a better network of activists. And you will remind me to stick to the K of C for the guys I am looking for.
Nothing.
The sort of non-Catholic ‘Preachers Of Only Truth” who blather endlessly about what a mess the Catholic minority is in are perfect examples of those Christ compared to whited sepulchers.
BELIEVE!
It isn't just Catholics but other Christians as well.
By the way, my daughter taught math in a Catholic K-8 school in Texas. **All** of the teachers, the principal, and the school's supervising priest voted for Obama. Obama is a man who boldly supports abortion and voted **three** times to deny medical care to infants born alive after an abortion. In essence, he voted to allow infants to suffer a miserably painful death from cold and exposure in the bottom of a stainless steel hospital utility room sink.
My daughter's class was the **only** class that held a regular class and did not watch the school;s broadcast of Obama’s inauguration.
Pitiful! Indeed, evil could not prevail without help from those who claim to follow Christ.
You're also ignoring:
We often hear, “God bless America.”
Why should God bless America? Why would we expect Him to do that in the face of two serious evils:
1) Abortion:
Millions of Christians can turn out to buy a chicken sandwich but can't figure out a way to legally and peacefully end abortion? Really? I don't believe it. If Christians **really** cared about the slaughter of innocents, abortion would be ended within a year.
2) Godless schooling:
85% of our nation's children attend the government's K-12 schools that teach children to think and reason godless, teach them to leave their faith at home and out of their public life, and to worship the state as their redeemer and savior. If Christians **really** had their hearts in the right place all government K-12 schooling would be closed within the year and our nation's godless colleges and universities would be dealing with massively empty classrooms.
With abortion, at least the soul of the little innocent’s life flies directly to the arms of Jesus. With godless government schooling and the relativism of college indoctrination, the child's soul risks eternal damnation.
As far as you and I know, the situation has never come up, it is a very weird question.
Baptist churches are independent, when we learn that 80% of Southern Baptists vote pro-life republican in 2008, it is a result of whatever they are absorbing from Southern Baptist bible teachings, or Christian culture, when Catholics vote pro-abortion Obama by 54%, it is from whatever they absorbed from the Vatican led, authority based Catholic church, and Catholic Christian culture.
Well, then you tell me: what is the equivalent for pro-abort politicians and their church?
What happens on the non-Catholic side?
Do you know or care, or have you ever questioned why the democrat party and the Catholic vote have such a permanent, almost perfect record of being a match?
What is your explanation for why Catholics voted overwhelmingly for Obama in 2008 and why the left plans the successes of their future based on Catholic immigration maintaining, or in their hopes, growing the Catholic population. Do you know what happened to California?
As we all know from the nonsense you post, that ain't much.
I think we can call yours and(sic) absurd post.
Pot, kettle, black.
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