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Abp Chaput on voting for Obama: ‘I certainly can’t vote for somebody who’s pro-choice’
LifeSite News ^ | September 17, 2012 | Patrick B. Craine

Posted on 09/17/2012 11:38:54 AM PDT by Alex Murphy

PHILADELPHIA, Sept. 17, 2012 (LifeSiteNews.com) - As the November general election approaches, America’s Catholic bishops have been walking a fine line as they strive to avoid appearances of partisanship while at the same time they wage a high-profile battle against the Obama administration over religious freedom.

Earlier this month, one of the leading lights in the U.S. episcopate insisted he “certainly” could not vote for Obama, while not specifically endorsing his Republic opponent Mitt Romney.

Asked whether a Catholic could vote for Obama in good faith, Archbishop Charles Chaput of Philadelphia replied: “I can only speak in terms of my own personal views. I certainly can’t vote for somebody who’s either pro-choice or pro-abortion.”

In a wide-ranging interview with John Allen, Jr. of the National Catholic Reporter, published Friday, the archbishop drew a sharp distinction between a candidate’s “prudential judgments” about how we care for the poor, and his position on an intrinsic evil like abortion.

Responding to concerns over the budget proposed by Republican vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan, which some Catholic bishops and other critics had called immoral because it cut programs to the poor, the archbishop pointed out that people of good faith can legitimately disagree over the role of government in providing aid to the poor.

“Jesus tells us very clearly that if we don’t help the poor, we’re going to go to hell,” he insisted. “But Jesus didn’t say the government has to take care of them, or that we have to pay taxes to take care of them. Those are prudential judgments.”

“You can’t say that somebody’s not Christian because they want to limit taxation,” he continued. “To say that it’s somehow intrinsically evil like abortion doesn’t make any sense at all.”

The archbishop, while noting he is a registered independent, said he has “deep personal concerns about any party that supports changing the definition of marriage, supports abortion in all circumstances, wants to restrict the traditional understanding of religious freedom.”

Chaput also said the bishops’ Fortnight for Freedom campaign in the summer was a success in raising greater awareness among Catholics about the grave threat to religious freedom facing America.

“The history of the world demonstrates that if we aren’t always on guard about religious freedom, we’ll lose it. It happens everywhere, and it could happen in the United States,” he observed.

“I would never have thought, even ten years ago, that we would be dealing with it so quickly,” he added.

On the HHS mandate, Chaput said he “can’t imagine” the courts would not overturn it. “If we don’t win, I’ll be astonished, and I’ll be even more worried about the future of religious freedom in our country,” he said.

“Those who oppose us on the mandates are very insistent. I thought they would back down by now, but they haven’t,” he continued. “We have to fight as vigorously in opposing them as they are in imposing them. Who’s going to win? I don’t know. It will be whoever fights the hardest and wins the hearts and minds of the people.”


TOPICS: Catholic; Ministry/Outreach; Moral Issues; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: chaput; charity; contraceptivemandate; obamacare; religiousfreedom; taxation
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Responding to concerns over the budget proposed by Republican vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan, which some Catholic bishops and other critics had called immoral because it cut programs to the poor, the archbishop pointed out that people of good faith can legitimately disagree over the role of government in providing aid to the poor.

“Jesus tells us very clearly that if we don’t help the poor, we’re going to go to hell,” he insisted. “But Jesus didn’t say the government has to take care of them, or that we have to pay taxes to take care of them. Those are prudential judgments”....

....The archbishop, while noting he is a registered independent, said he has “deep personal concerns about any party that supports changing the definition of marriage, supports abortion in all circumstances, wants to restrict the traditional understanding of religious freedom.”

1 posted on 09/17/2012 11:38:59 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: Alex Murphy

Tennessee Nana on voting for Obama or Willard: ‘I certainly can’t vote for somebody who’s pro-choice’


2 posted on 09/17/2012 11:53:26 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Alex Murphy

Faith in Obama is never what could be called “good faith”.

It is faith in degeneracy and evil, all dressed up in glitzy phrases and with inspired touches of apparent virtue superimposed over the most base elements of the darkest part of the psyche.

“Gimme” is painted as a plea for mercy, and the most brutal of acts are called “unfortunate misunderstandings”. Time-honored rituals and custons are perverted and redefined into unrecogniability, while all the external trappings seem to remain unchanged, and it is, after all, a “personal choice”. All the while any REAL choices are foreclosed and made inaccessible, both through indoctrination of large numbers, and by social peer pressure being placed on the ones who do not conform to the new indoctrination.

It is a time to test men’s souls.


3 posted on 09/17/2012 12:01:56 PM PDT by alloysteel (Something like 95% of the personal woe in this world is self-induced.)
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To: Alex Murphy
Better now than never I guess, but why wasn't this brought up before the 2008 election. Obama was just as pro-abortion then as he is now.
4 posted on 09/17/2012 12:02:36 PM PDT by Sergio (An object at rest cannot be stopped! - The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight)
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To: Sergio

Let me start by saying my wife and daughter are Catholic. I will never be one as long as they continue to behave the wy they do. The Archbishops were not a pissed when it was just a question of abortion, oh no.. that’s politics...but now hey you are attacking our pocket books forcing us to pay for contreceptives and abortions in our medical plans. My wife gets mad when I call people pocket book Catholics. They are pro-life, pro-same sex marriage but vote Pro abortion, gay marriage Democrats into office because they are Union members or they think the Repubs will take some of that free government money away from them. They vote their pocket books not their faith.


5 posted on 09/17/2012 12:10:53 PM PDT by OldGoatCPO
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To: Sergio
It was. Why weren't you paying attention?

"So can a Catholic in good conscience vote for a pro-choice candidate? The answer is: I can't, and I won't."

6 posted on 09/17/2012 12:13:24 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: OldGoatCPO

Odd, I don’t see people calling out protestants for that same thing.

Yes, some Catholics are like that. Is it bad? Yes. But if all the protestants had voted for McCain, he’d be president.


7 posted on 09/17/2012 12:16:13 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: A.A. Cunningham
Thank you, Sir.

I am completely disgusted with self-so-called 'conservatives' on this forum who display the attention span and observational prowess of a gnat.

With apologies to actual gnats, which can't help it.

8 posted on 09/17/2012 12:16:29 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Tennessee Nana
And therein lies our current problem:

The demonicRats present us with the pro-abortion communist.

The Repugnicans present us with the pro-abortion socialist.

Do I prefer to be shot in the head with a .44 Mag, or a .45 Auto?

9 posted on 09/17/2012 12:18:51 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Sergio

Just becasue you weren’t paying attention in 2008 doesn’t mean it wasn’t brought up.


10 posted on 09/17/2012 12:20:45 PM PDT by pgkdan (A vote for anyone but Romney is a vote for obama. GO MITT!!)
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To: Alex Murphy
Oh, yes. I almost forgot: RCIA.
11 posted on 09/17/2012 12:22:23 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: JCBreckenridge

A big difference is that the Protestant vote always goes pro-life, including in 2008, and when getting into various denominations the differences are astounding.

Catholics went 54% pro-abortion, and the second largest American denomination, the Southern Baptists, went about 20% pro-abortion in 2008.


12 posted on 09/17/2012 12:29:50 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: OldGoatCPO
I'll echo JCBreckenridge's comment that protestants do the exact same thing. It's a problem with the fact that protestant ministers and Catholic priests fail to preach against covetousness. When was that last time you heard such a sermon in church?
13 posted on 09/17/2012 12:31:03 PM PDT by GOP_Party_Animal
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To: A.A. Cunningham

Now the problem is that both major candidates are pro-abortion.

Mitt Romney, a few weeks ago, switched from “human at conception” to coming out against the GOP pro-life platform, and announcing that he was for abortion for “health”, meaning that he was fully back to his life long position of abortion on demand.


14 posted on 09/17/2012 12:33:57 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: GOP_Party_Animal

Look at post 12.

Protestants do not do the same as Catholics, the Protestant vote has never gone pro-abortion, in fact, it has only gone democrat 3 times, in at the very least, a hundred years.


15 posted on 09/17/2012 12:38:23 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: OldGoatCPO

Ping for later


16 posted on 09/17/2012 12:43:41 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline, Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Society. Broil 'em now!!!)
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To: ansel12
The major justification that liberal Catholics used in '08 to vote for Obama was that he could "spread wealth around". That was the moral justification that trumped the abortion issue for Catholics who were leaning that way anyhow. That 54% of Catholics did not vote "pro-choice", they voted "pro-income redistribution" and kept their head in the sand regarding abortion.

I was trying to speak to "Goat's" pocket-book Catholic point anyway.

17 posted on 09/17/2012 12:55:23 PM PDT by GOP_Party_Animal
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To: GOP_Party_Animal

Catholics have only voted republican six times in history, what were the reasons the rest of the time?


18 posted on 09/17/2012 12:59:53 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: ansel12
the Protestant vote always goes pro-life,

Bravo Sierra

19 posted on 09/17/2012 1:03:27 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: ansel12

What is your point? Are you trying to convert me or something?


20 posted on 09/17/2012 1:05:47 PM PDT by GOP_Party_Animal
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To: A.A. Cunningham

The only times the democrats won the Protestant vote was in 1932, 1936, and 1964.

The Protestant vote doesn’t go democrat.


21 posted on 09/17/2012 1:10:24 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: ansel12
A big difference is that the Protestant vote always goes pro-life, including in 2008, and when getting into various denominations the differences are astounding.

The Protestant vote always goes Republican. You're telling us that Protestants who traditionally vote Republican do so principally because of the Republican candidate's position on abortion?

Is that what you're calling the "pro-life vote"?

Or are you saying that a Protestant who votes Republican because he prefers lower taxes and smaller government is making "a pro-life vote"?

22 posted on 09/17/2012 1:12:04 PM PDT by marshmallow (.)
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To: GOP_Party_Animal

My point is that the Catholic vote matches up with Catholic politics, the Catholic voter is more pro-abortion, and homosexual marriage than the Protestant voter. That is why they vote for the democrat party.


23 posted on 09/17/2012 1:14:38 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: ansel12
You know who votes Republican a higher percentage than Protestants? Mormons. I suggest you convert to Mormonism.

Enjoy the underwear, you pest.

24 posted on 09/17/2012 1:16:00 PM PDT by GOP_Party_Animal
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To: GOP_Party_Animal

You compared the Mormon cult vote to all things called Protestant.

Now compare that strongly authoritative/single leader cult vote to strongly authoritative/single leader Catholic voters and none authoritative/no leader, Southern Baptists.


25 posted on 09/17/2012 1:20:32 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: marshmallow

You think that social conservatives vote democrat? That is absurd.

Social liberals vote democrat, social conservatives vote republican, that is why Romney is causing problems with the republican Protestant base, (by the way, he will do better with Catholics).


26 posted on 09/17/2012 1:23:19 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: ArrogantBustard
Oh, yes. I almost forgot: RCIA.

They wrote a book, you know:

27 posted on 09/17/2012 1:25:36 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (At the end of the day, you have to worship the god who can set you on fire.)
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To: ansel12
You used the term "pro-life vote". As in...."the Protestant vote always goes pro-life". The Protestant vote goes Republican.

In 1952, there was no pro-life candidate. Abortion was illegal, it was not an issue and nobody was talking about legalizing it.

You're claiming that those Protestants who voted for Eisenhower were voting "pro-life"?? Likewise for Nixon in '68?

Is that your definition of a "pro-life vote". Even when abortion is not an issue?

28 posted on 09/17/2012 1:32:48 PM PDT by marshmallow (.)
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To: ansel12

“A big difference is that the Protestant vote always goes pro-life, including in 2008, and when getting into various denominations the differences are astounding.”

Depends very much on the denomination. Baptists do not vote the same way as Episcopalians. We should call out those denominations which do vote prolife and distinguish them from denominations that do not do so.


29 posted on 09/17/2012 1:41:28 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: OldGoatCPO; A.A. Cunningham; pgkdan
Easy there folks...I have been paying attention. The outcry against Obama from the Catholic Church in 2008 was NOT at the same level it is for this election.

My apologies if that point was not made clear in my first post.

There are many folks at church who were for Obama in 2008, even though they knew of his position on abortion, who will not vote for him now. The only thing that has changed since then is the HHS mandate and the USCCB’s opposition to it.

Again, it is just my opinion, but I am of the belief that if the USCCB had come out this forcefully against Obama in 2008, we might be in a different position today.

30 posted on 09/17/2012 1:52:40 PM PDT by Sergio (An object at rest cannot be stopped! - The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight)
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To: JCBreckenridge

You are absolutely correct, and people should stop comparing the single denomination Catholic vote with all other churches collectively.

The two largest churches in America are the Catholic, and the Southern Baptist for instance, I imagine that Southern Baptists get tired of their good, pro-life voting being lumped in with other denominations.

It is powerful though, that as incredibly diverse the catch phrase Protestant is, that it still is to the right of Catholics.

As far as calling them out, there are so few of the liberal Protestant church members here at FR, and the few that we do have are fully on board with conservatism, they never defend their churches liberalism, or deny that their denomination votes democrat, if it does.


31 posted on 09/17/2012 1:58:49 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: Sergio

Let us hope that Cardinal Dolan does not kiss Obama’s ring at the Al Smith Dinner.


32 posted on 09/17/2012 2:02:52 PM PDT by ardara
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To: JCBreckenridge; marshmallow

JCBreckenridge after you read post 31, then read post 28 for an example of what I was saying.


33 posted on 09/17/2012 2:04:02 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: ansel12

“It is powerful though, that as incredibly diverse the catch phrase Protestant is, that it still is to the right of Catholics.

As far as calling them out, there are so few of the liberal Protestant church members here at FR, and the few that we do have are fully on board with conservatism, they never defend their churches liberalism, or deny that their denomination votes democrat, if it does.”

If you’re willing to call out Catholics, than you should also be willing to call out Episcopalians. Some of us left these denominations and get irritated with the constant praise for ‘protestants’.


34 posted on 09/17/2012 2:04:41 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: JCBreckenridge

As I said.

“”As far as calling them out, there are so few of the liberal Protestant church members here at FR, and the few that we do have are fully on board with conservatism, they never defend their churches liberalism, or deny that their denomination votes democrat, if it does.””

We don’t have many Episcopalians here at FR, if any, how do we call them out, ask for their help in winning conservative votes, in fighting immigration, in stopping the importation of tens of millions of liberal, democrat voting Episcopalians into America?


35 posted on 09/17/2012 2:17:15 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: ansel12

That’s a double standard. :)

But, then, we already knew that to be the case.

Why are you giving cover to liberals?


36 posted on 09/17/2012 2:22:08 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: JCBreckenridge

Until you make some sense, I can’t know what you are trying to say.

What is your question?


37 posted on 09/17/2012 2:35:53 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: ansel12
Two thirds of the Protestants I know, many of whom I've known for decades, stay home and don't even vote.

What they belive doesn't matter. They sit out elections because they don't think Christians should care about politics, they think the rapture is just around the corner so it doesn't matter, or they think neither candidate isn't perfect enough for them to vote for. It must not be just the folks I know, either, because if two thirds of those who claim to be Protestant Christians gave a damn enough to vote rather than whine we'd have never had King Barry in the first place.

38 posted on 09/17/2012 2:54:34 PM PDT by Rashputin (Only Newt can defeat both the Fascist democrats and the Vichy GOP)
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To: Rashputin; ansel12
What they belive doesn't matter. They sit out elections because they don't think Christians should care about politics, they think the rapture is just around the corner so it doesn't matter, or they think neither candidate isn't perfect enough for them to vote for. It must not be just the folks I know, either, because if two thirds of those who claim to be Protestant Christians gave a damn enough to vote rather than whine we'd have never had King Barry in the first place.

What does that say about the Catholics who claim they make up 20-35% (depending on who you ask) of the USA? Are they responsible for voting Barry in?

39 posted on 09/17/2012 3:02:03 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (At the end of the day, you have to worship the god who can set you on fire.)
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To: ansel12

Why do you have one standard for Catholics and another standard for Episcopalians?

I’ve been both. Believe me, Catholics are far more conservative than Episcopalians.


40 posted on 09/17/2012 3:02:26 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: Rashputin

That is one strange post, Protestants voted against Obama by a very solid majority, but they can’t make up for the non-Protestants that vote for him.

As far as the Protestants from the more bible believing denominations like you described, they went HUGELY against Obama.


41 posted on 09/17/2012 3:06:49 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: JCBreckenridge
I don't know what you mean?

I don't have a different standard for any denomination, I told you that I don't even think we have any Episcopalians at freerepublic, they are less than 2 million people, and I just don't recall any here, I sure haven't seen anyone defending their voting here.

I posted this to you, I don't know why you keep lashing out at me like we are in some kind of fight about something.

"We don’t have many Episcopalians here at FR, if any, how do we call them out, ask for their help in winning conservative votes, in fighting immigration, in stopping the importation of tens of millions of liberal, democrat voting Episcopalians into America?"

42 posted on 09/17/2012 3:12:23 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: Alex Murphy

Socialism and communism are intrinsically evil because they destroy the individual. I’m paraphrasing Pope John Paul here.


43 posted on 09/17/2012 3:16:21 PM PDT by jwalsh07 (.)
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To: Alex Murphy
Thank you! Fascinating book, no doubt ... sadly, Amazon seems to have it only in French.

It seems to perfectly accompany the other links you have sent me.

44 posted on 09/17/2012 3:22:04 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ansel12
They didn't go HUGELY against King Barry if you count the total number of folks who could have voted compared to the total that the total folks who did. In addition, everyone is now very careful to break black folks out and say they're not among the bible believing Christians but that's not true if you look at what the majority of their churches preach every Sunday. The fact that the people in the pews are racist doesn't change the fact that they're mostly very much in line with Evangelicals or conservative Baptists when it comes to what they claim to believe.
45 posted on 09/17/2012 3:41:49 PM PDT by Rashputin (Only Newt can defeat both the Fascist democrats and the Vichy GOP)
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To: Alex Murphy
No, they're not and no matter how much fun you have drilling holes in your head and pretending otherwise you know it. There are at least as many Catholics who sit elections out as there are who vote it's just that those who don't vote don't far outnumber those who do as is the case among Protestant groups.

Even with so many Protestants sitting out elections the number of Protestants who cast votes still outnumbers voting Catholics by over three to one. It's people who claim to be Christian but love goverment more than Christ and make sure they vote and work for candidates that elect people like King Barry, not Catholics or any particular Protestant group.

The point is that if Christians who bitch and complain worked and voted instead we wouldn't have the kind of President we have or the sort of scum in Congress that we have. Look at the numbers for various groups in NC and you get a good cross section of what various religious groups have to sit out elections in order for the fascists to retain control.

46 posted on 09/17/2012 3:56:32 PM PDT by Rashputin (Only Newt can defeat both the Fascist democrats and the Vichy GOP)
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To: Rashputin

Blacks are counted in the Protestant column.

That is a little out there for me, freaking out over the people who don’t vote and being mad at the Protestant conservative voting base, while ignoring those that actually vote against republicans.


47 posted on 09/17/2012 3:57:28 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: ansel12
Go check out the sermon audio site and look around at the number of sermons still there (seems like a good many are gone now) that were about why Christians shouldn't vote for Obama or McLame either one. There are also a few on there about why Christians are displaying a lack of faith if they ever vote although those seem to be pretty much gone now as well. I don't know the criteria for removing a sermon from the site but it would probably have to be the author or source of the sermon who pulls it. Actually, the problem is the very approach you think is the correct one. Those who vote against republicans are far outnumbered by those who would never vote for the democrat scum but don't bother to vote at all.

Do you really think it's easier to change the opinion and vested interest of someone who already is firmly in the democrat fascist camp than to convince someone to vote because doing so is defending Christianity?

48 posted on 09/17/2012 4:11:43 PM PDT by Rashputin (Only Newt can defeat both the Fascist democrats and the Vichy GOP)
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To: Rashputin
the number of Protestants who cast votes still outnumbers voting Catholics by over three to one

Try two to one.

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

49 posted on 09/17/2012 4:13:17 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: Rashputin

No, I’m not going to do that.

I love how Evangelicals vote though, absolutely love it.


50 posted on 09/17/2012 4:18:55 PM PDT by ansel12
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