Posted on 09/17/2012 4:31:09 AM PDT by wesagain
Depends on whether you count the manifestations of a messiah as constituting one person or a multiplicity ~ the Krishna devotees have certainly latched on to Krishna being the same as the Great Fish who used the 8 headed cobra to rescue Ma-Nu from the Great Flood on Mt. Ararat ~ so obviously there he’s not a snake ~ still, you see the symbol on a bumper sticker you know the devotee in the car is intending the Krishna persona and not some other. ~ Right?
Try Madderakka, Sarakka, Juksakka and Ugsakka.
what symbol? There is a story of Krishna capturing a fish and releasing it (can’t remember the entire story) but not of Krishna being a fish.
This version has Shiva manifesting himself as a fish and rescuing Ma Nu. Both are messianic manifestations of the same god-head (which can be a single god or a whole committee of gods)
There are a number of videos available on the net so you can actually experience the event ~ plus watch Ma-Nu himself save the 7 great sages through his clever use of a boat.
Two things ~ the universal imagery of a man, his boat, a great fish, a great flood ~ these appear in various arrangements in many ancient stories. More importantly Ma Nu has the same numbers, 1 man, 7 sages, etc. Then there's the snake used as a rope with his 8 heads, etc. You can line these numbers up against other ancient versions of the great flood, and you see they the same ones.
That suggests that behind this meme there's a widespread shamanistic tradition that spread among all the trade routes developed toward the end of the Ice Age. The tale has staying power.
Christ's Resurrection says "Thou Shalt Keep Sunday"
My mother is Zoroastrian by birth. I agree w/ Elendur’s comment. Btw, that bridge is called Chinvat bridge (bridge of judgement). We don’t know if it is meant metaphorically or otherwise.
>>>”I know there are historians who think the concept of Satan came from the Zoroastrians but beyond that, I’ve never heard suggestions of other influence.”<<<
The concept of Angels such as Lucifer (Satan/Devil) in Zoroastrianism is not literally meant as a person or an entity.
In Z faith, there are 2 opposing concepts in Avestan language: Spenta Mainyu (positive mentality/thinking/doing/speaking) & Angra Mainyu (negative mentality/thinking/doing/speaking). We also know it as Good vs Evil.
Interestingly if we look at it in linguistic terms, Spenta can be related to “Splendid or Splendour”, whereas Angra can relate to “Angry or a state of Anger” in English.
‘Course, Avestan language as well as modern Persian have Indo-European roots. I can give you many examples of pure Persian words and their equivalents in French, German, Spanish & English - they sound very much the same & mean the same thing.
E.G., some basic words, first words below are Persian words commonly in use even now
Dokhtar = Daughter (English), Tokter (German)
Pedar (father) = Padre (Spanish), Père (French)
Baradar = Brother (English), Bruder (German)
Madar = Mother (English), Madre (Spanish), Mère (French), Mutter (German)
Nahm = Name (English), Nahme (German), Nom (French), Nombre (Spanish)
Good overview of Zoroastrian faith & concepts:
http://www.zarathushtra.com/z/article/overview.htm
2 opposing concepts = 2 opposing Forces
>>>”so Dec 21 would be the death of Tammuz with the winter solstice”<<<
December 21 in Iran, even today, is known as Shab_e Cheleh (night of the 40th) or Yalda (a Syric word). It is still celebrated today in Iran, but many do not know its true meaning or origins. Although, most recognize that it isn’t an Islamic or Shia celebration.
Yalda, as you say, is part of winter solstice, the longest night or the shortest day of the yr in the Northern Hemisphere. In Iran it has been associated with Zoroastrianism, but in fact its origins are Pre-Zoroastrian, in Mithra (Indo-Iranian deity aka sun-god).
Post-Zoroaster, it was believed that the forces of evil (Ahriman in Persian) are very active on that night, because it is the longest night of the yr, and evil is associated with darkness. Therefore, on that night, candles in-house and contained bon-fires outside would be kept burning until dawn to keep away the forces of darkness (evil or Ahriman).
A fairly good account of Yalda celebrations in Iran:
http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Celebrations/yalda.htm
Btw, Hannuka is also celebrated around the same time, as is Christmas.
Yes, Iranians were Mithra worshipers (also pronounced Mitra in Persian, which is a fairly popular girl’s name) before Zoroaster (Zarathustra or Zartosht in modern Persian language) came along.
A few national celebrations in Iran even today are based on ancient Mithraic ones & based on 2 equal seasons i.e. winter & summer. Spring heralds the arrival of summer & autumn (fall) the arrival of winter. However, unlike the Arabs & generally semitic races, Iranians/Persians have always used a Solar Calendar. Zoroaster was essentially a reformer of Mithraic concepts.
Unbelievable.
Allah is a common noun. It means simply, “god.” Hence, “There is no allah but Allah.” The god referred to in this passage as “Alla” is Tammuz, so it’s quite obvious that Alla is being used as a common noun here, as well
Allah is a contraction of “Al” and “Ilah,” according to Arabic grammatical contracting rules. Al-ilah becomes Allah as surely as it-is becomes it’s. Ilah is the Arabic version of the same word which became Eloh in Hebrew. (In the bible, “Eloh” is given a “royal pluralization” to become, “Elohim,” the word used for God. “Im” is the Hebrew pluralization, hence one cherub among many cherubim, one Hassid among the many Hassidim, one seraph among many seraphim.)
Many pagan gods have been referred to as “Allah,” just as many pagan gods have been referred to as, well, “gods.”
This all comes off as laughably silly sounding to any of the vast numbers of Middle-Eastern Christians who also call the God of Israel, “Allah.”
(My Syrian-based church, the Greek Melkite Catholic Church, refers to God as Alaha.)
That’s interesting.
I know Moslem Iranians use the word “Elohim” pronounced as Eh-laa-hee or Eh-laa-heem, with Persian accent. It can be used during the course of an ordinary conversation, simply referring to God, especially when innocence or purity is intended to be conveyed about a person. I take that to be a variation of “Elohim”, pronounced somewhat differently in Persian.
Excellent Article...
Of where, exactly?
Interesting about your relationship with Parsis. Lovely people
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