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1700 B.C.: 'Alla' god of 'violence and revolution'
WorldNetDaily ^ | Sept 17, 2012 | staff writer

Posted on 09/17/2012 4:31:09 AM PDT by wesagain

A research article posted on the website of terrorist-turned-Christian Walid Shoebat contends the oldest known references to the Islamic deity Allah are not in Arabian records but in Babylonian artifacts.

Ancient tablets describe “Alla” as a deity of “violence and revolution.” “This link sheds new light since for many years we have been hearing various ideas on where Allah came from. Christian and Muslim scholars – as well as secular professors – presented numerous arguments on just who Allah really is,” wrote Ted Shoebat, the son of Walid Shoebat.

In his heavily footnoted project, he writes that historians have suggested Islam’s beginnings are found in the Persian religion Zoroastrianism, while others, including Christian writers, argue Allah was a moon-god in Babylon.

The younger Shoebat, who already has published several books, said previously the oldest known reference to “Allah” was in northern and southern Arabia about the fifth century B.C., according to Kenneth J. Thomas.

The new find, however, links the name to....

(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...


TOPICS: Islam; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: allah; babylon; islam; zoroastrianism
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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1 posted on 09/17/2012 4:31:15 AM PDT by wesagain
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To: wesagain
"Ancient tablets describe “Alla” as a deity of “violence and revolution"

Plese allow me to introduce myself......

2 posted on 09/17/2012 4:34:43 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: wesagain
They were the enemies of God's people who had breached the wall he said. Ninth century B.C. soldiers from the ancient city of Nimrod. These were masters of evil and terror. “Terrorists” who breached the wall of God's protection. The details of what will happen to Israel is revealed in a prophecy....

Isaiah 10:5-7 Woe to Assyria, the rod of My anger! And the staff in their hand is My fury. I will send him against an ungodly nation, and against the people of My wrath. I will command him to take the plunder, and to strip off the spoil, and to trample them like the mud of the streets. Yet he does not plan this, nor does his heart think so. For it is in his heart to destroy and cut off not a few nations.

And another... Isaiah 10:10 – 12 As my hand has reached to the kingdoms of the idols, and their graven images more than Jerusalem's and Samaria's; shall I not do to Jerusalem and her idols as I have done to Samaria and her idols? And it will be, when the Lord has broken off all His work on Mount Zion and on Jerusalem, I will punish the fruit of the proud heart of the king of Assyria and the glory of his high looks.

The Assyrians were brought into judgment. But because God wanted Israel to awake from it's apostasy......he would let the enemies strike. These who's language was Akkadian and is now Arabic. And as Israel was drawn into conflict so America has been drawn in; Iraq, Afghanistan, what next – Syria? The blood descendents of those who attacked Israel have breached the wall again!

Read "The Harbinger" - Jonathan Cahn

3 posted on 09/17/2012 4:37:51 AM PDT by wesagain (The God (Elohim) of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the One True GOD.)
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To: wesagain

Watch for a Shoebat fat wad.


4 posted on 09/17/2012 4:40:10 AM PDT by Past Your Eyes (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it.)
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To: wesagain
'Allah', god of 'violence and revolution'

Radical islam has a lot in common with Obama's communist "Black Liberation" theology. It also advocates violence and revolution. The Weather Underground advocated it, too, along with the murderous Black Liberation Army of the 1970s and 1980s. Recall they and former members of the WU murdered 2 police officers and a security guard in a robbery of a Brinks truck. See my FR Home page for much more related info. The New and original Black Panthers are/were also proponents of communist, so-called, "Black Liberation".

5 posted on 09/17/2012 4:54:50 AM PDT by ETL (ALL (most?) of the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: ETL

“See my FR Home page for much more related info.”

Keep for further research.
However, to convince the rest of the world requires the intervention of the Holy Spirit to remove the scales from their eyes.


6 posted on 09/17/2012 5:02:40 AM PDT by vanilla swirl (searching for something meaningfull to say)
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To: wesagain

The lie that is repeated by the MSM and Obama, etc. Is merely to convince us that Islam is no different from Christianity or any other. The historicity of either cannot be argued (I have tried) because they operate under the premise that there is no real God except your individual concept of Him. And, of course all views have to be valid.


7 posted on 09/17/2012 5:08:56 AM PDT by vanilla swirl (searching for something meaningfull to say)
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To: vanilla swirl
Keep for further research.

Thanks. If I had the funding (or hit the lottery) I have no doubt I could put together a documentary that would crush Obama's chances of being reelected.

8 posted on 09/17/2012 5:13:26 AM PDT by ETL (ALL (most?) of the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: wesagain

The interesting link in that article is of ‘Alla’ (’Allah’) to Tammuz, the pagan god (of those people God judged) whose birthday we celebrate on December 25, calling it “Christmas” even though it’s far likelier He was born in September.

And I won’t even mention the Babylonian goddess of fertility, Ishtar, whose holiday we celebrate, calling it “Easter” and convincing children to search for eggs and eat chocolate bunnies, ostensibly in celebration of the Lord’s resurrection.

Israel isn’t the only chosen people to lose the plot completely....


9 posted on 09/17/2012 5:15:01 AM PDT by Publius Maximus (It was a nice Republic, while it lasted.)
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To: wesagain

A fascinating discovery. Molded a violent Babylonian god with the messiah of Christianity and Judaism, created a world movement.


10 posted on 09/17/2012 5:18:44 AM PDT by tbw2
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To: Publius Maximus
The interesting link in that article is of ‘Alla’ (’Allah’) to Tammuz, the pagan god (of those people God judged) whose birthday we celebrate on December 25, calling it “Christmas” even though it’s far likelier He was born in September.

And I won’t even mention the Babylonian goddess of fertility, Ishtar, whose holiday we celebrate, calling it “Easter” and convincing children to search for eggs and eat chocolate bunnies, ostensibly in celebration of the Lord’s resurrection.

Israel isn’t the only chosen people to lose the plot completely....


Well, you certainly have. No one on Christmas thinks of "Alla" and no one on Easter thinks of Ishtar.
11 posted on 09/17/2012 5:24:38 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: Publius Maximus
I believe Jesus was born during the feast of tabernacles and this is supported by simply doing the math from statements in the Bible.

It begins here.....Luke 1:5 In the days of Herod, the king of Judea, there was a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abijah. And his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth.

Unfortunately our lazy and un-educated church leaders today would rather have us go down the road of Babylonian pagan worship than do some real instruction in what the Word of God has taught us.

12 posted on 09/17/2012 5:26:13 AM PDT by wesagain (The God (Elohim) of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the One True GOD.)
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sfl


13 posted on 09/17/2012 5:42:05 AM PDT by phockthis (http://www.supremelaw.org/fedzone11/index.htm ...)
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To: GoDuke

sfl


14 posted on 09/17/2012 5:43:15 AM PDT by GoDuke
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To: wesagain

“historians have suggested Islam’s beginnings are found in the Persian religion Zoroastrianism”

The Islamic Pig-People have all but destroyed Zoroastrianism but other than that, I’ve never seen an Islamic reference to Zoroastrianism. If I recall correctly, the references in the Koran are always Judeo-Christian.

I know there are historians who think the concept of Satan came from the Zoroastrians but beyond that, I’ve never heard suggestions of other influence.


15 posted on 09/17/2012 5:47:59 AM PDT by Psycho_Bunny ("Insulting" Islam is as impossible as casting aspersions on a pile of dog crap.)
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To: wesagain

This is the cult of the Queen of Heaven spoken of in Jeremiah 44... the queen of heaven is the moon. Allah was, and is, the “god” of the moon. That is why the Muslims worship the moon rock in Saudi Arabia.

Just as Allah is simply the devil under a different name, the moon has no light of its own... only what it can reflect from the Sun.


16 posted on 09/17/2012 5:49:11 AM PDT by pgyanke (Republicans get in trouble when not living up to their principles. Democrats... when they do.)
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To: circlecity

LOL! Sounds familiar....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBecM3CQVD8

“Plese allow me to introduce myself......”


17 posted on 09/17/2012 5:53:17 AM PDT by XenaLee (The only good commie is a dead commie.)
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To: ETL

In Israel it is called the “red/green alliance” - marxists and islamists.


18 posted on 09/17/2012 5:56:53 AM PDT by Tzfat
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To: wesagain

god of violence and revolution => kill, steal and destroy.


19 posted on 09/17/2012 5:59:19 AM PDT by mountainlion (Live well for those that did not make it back.)
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To: vanilla swirl

>>However, to convince the rest of the world requires the intervention of the Holy Spirit to remove the scales from their eyes.

I agree with you and I’ve done a lot of prayer and thought on this. So what put the scales in front of our eyes? What was the event in the history of Christianity that put them there? We were on track. Christ had risen and the Way was flourishing, but then a couple centuries later, a corrupted version of scripture arose from the desert that would plague us for at least 1400 years (and counting). In the Old Testament, punishment followed falling away or the turn to idolatry. What did we do, and what must we do to repent and turn back to the right path? This isn’t going to take some easy fix like banning contemporary worship music or wearing suits and dresses to church (as some have told me). This is a 1400 year old curse on humanity!


20 posted on 09/17/2012 6:02:47 AM PDT by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: Psycho_Bunny

I know there are historians who think the concept of Satan came from the Zoroastrians but beyond that, I’ve never heard suggestions of other influence.
///
Mohammad borrowed a lot, from several religions.
there is definitely other things from Zorastrianism.
for example, the narrow bridge that must be crossed,
after death.
and some things, are hard to attribute, because Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians, share many concepts.
(and none of them, terrorize and behead those of other faiths...)


21 posted on 09/17/2012 6:03:02 AM PDT by Elendur (It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: ETL; All

Radical islam has a lot in common with Obama’s communist “Black Liberation” theology. It also advocates violence and revolution.
///
there is no “Radical Islam”.
there is only Islam.
the Quran itself, commands Muslims, to do jihad,
and SPECIFICALLY to “terrorize” and kill, unbelievers.
=
Islamists are not misunderstanding Islam.
they are simply following the clear teachings of it!


22 posted on 09/17/2012 6:05:42 AM PDT by Elendur (It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Elendur; FatherofFive

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2932033/posts?page=3#3

Sura (8:12) - “I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them”

Ibn Ishaq: 327 - “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

Ibn Ishaq: 992 - “Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah.”


23 posted on 09/17/2012 6:11:40 AM PDT by Elendur (It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Bryanw92

“but then a couple centuries later, a corrupted version of scripture arose from the desert that would plague us for at least 1400 years (and counting).”

Speaking of the Koran?


24 posted on 09/17/2012 6:17:29 AM PDT by vanilla swirl (searching for something meaningfull to say)
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To: Psycho_Bunny

it’s also interesting to note,
that Muhammad apparently didn’t learn of Christianity from Orthodox sources. Instead, it must have been Gnostics.
much of Islam includes Gnostic beliefs.
example, that Jesus wasn’t killed on the cross,
but was removed first. That comes from Gnostic texts.


25 posted on 09/17/2012 6:22:24 AM PDT by Elendur (It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Publius Maximus
No, when it's the shortest day of the year you are not celebrating an old time Mesopotamian diety ~ you are worshipping a FAR MORE ANCIENT diety ~ but within 5 days time you will find Little Red Man, in his guise as a shaman with a bag, coming to your lavu and climbing down the fire/smoke hole at the top ~ he will leave burned coals or things of utility like baskets or dolls for the children.

Leastwise that's what the white folks do ~ the Middle Easterners may do something else.

It's like the Spring festival where everybody eats eggs taken from the recently arrived birds from the South. What a relief from dried fish and dried reindeer meat.

Later on, when the great herds return to their winter quarters, Herb Woman will appear bringing you every sort of seed and fruit (that the subarctic regions can provide).

Your women will focus on the four household goddesses ~ who have names so similar to those of the Dravidian people it's uncanny.

Jesus wasn't inserted into the old time religion in that region until the 1500s, so he's a somewhat late arrival to those folks ~

26 posted on 09/17/2012 6:24:00 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Publius Maximus
Tammuz, the pagan god (of those people God judged) whose birthday we celebrate on December 25, calling it “Christmas” even though it’s far likelier He was born in September.

wow -- in which calendar? Do you know that the Gregorian and Julian calendars are pretty much later than Tammuz?

and did you know that we don't celebrate Tammuz' birth but rather Christ's?

I don't know what you celebrate, but Christians for 2000 years have celebrated CHRIST's birth

Furthermore, Tammuz's birth was not celebrated by the Sumerians, rather they celebrated him as the change of seasons -- so Dec 21 would be the death of Tammuz with the winter solstice

don't believe all the rot your pastors teach!

27 posted on 09/17/2012 6:26:04 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Elendur
there is no “Radical Islam”. there is only Islam. the Quran itself, commands Muslims, to do jihad

Point taken. I was just trying to distinguish between the aggressive/violent members of the 'religion' and the basically passive ones.

28 posted on 09/17/2012 6:28:03 AM PDT by ETL (ALL (most?) of the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: Publius Maximus; aruanan
And I won’t even mention the Babylonian goddess of fertility, Ishtar, whose holiday we celebrate, calling it “Easter”

This is so incredibly stupid it's impossible. Easter is only used in English and modern German. And you know that English is a relatively new language, right?

This betrays the fact that many look at things from an English language view and forget that in other languages, Easter is not called "Easter". In Latin languages it is Pasqua etc. derived from Passover while in Slavic languages it is Wielkanoc (Great Night) etc.

The Latin term for Easter is Pascha showing straight away that the statement is wrong

One should also point out that In Romantic languages, the word for Easter is based on Pesach, the Hebrew word for Passover, which Jesus was celebrating at the time of his execution. And the Romantic language speakers have been celebrating Easter far longer than the English.

only in the German/English languages is it called Ostern or Easter

Even in Danish and Norwegian it is called påske , in Swedish påsk, in Estonian it is lihavõtted in Finnish pääsiäinen in Dutch it is called Pasen -- so your entire post is utterly wrong as you're just looking at it from an English perspective

You do realise that Modern English only dates from the 1600s and prior to that it was Latin then French that was the official language, right? Hence even the English celebrated Pascha

You do realise that High German was the liturgical language only post the 1500s and prior to that it was Latin, right? hence the Germans celebrated Pascha too

29 posted on 09/17/2012 6:31:21 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Psycho_Bunny

you forget the black stone of Elagabalus that is right now in the corner of the Ka’aba in Mecca


30 posted on 09/17/2012 6:34:08 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: muawiyah
I knew this had to be your post before I saw the name.

It was just so WEIRD.

31 posted on 09/17/2012 6:37:40 AM PDT by Lazamataz (RAGE MONKEY RULEZ!!!)
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To: wesagain

THE MORE THINGS CHANGE, THE MORE THEY STAY THE SAME


32 posted on 09/17/2012 6:45:40 AM PDT by RaceBannon (When Chuck Norris goes to bed, he checks under it for Clint Eastwood!)
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To: wesagain

Allah was ripped off from pagans. It was a moon god (they still use the crescent moon, the idiots). The koran was ripped off from the Bible. “The prophet” (piss be upon him) was and is a disgusting fraud.


33 posted on 09/17/2012 6:53:11 AM PDT by youngidiot (The name's Bond. James Bond. James Bond Jovi.)
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To: wesagain

Bookmark


34 posted on 09/17/2012 6:55:16 AM PDT by DocRock (All they that TAKE the sword shall perish with the sword. Matthew 26:52 Gun grabbers beware.)
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To: Lazamataz

Still, you can’t beat over 7,000 years of evidence (oldest date for some of the pictoglyphs in the Russian Sapma) ~ see http://www.folklore.ee/folklore/vol47/joy.pdf to bring yourself up to date on what is known of ancient Sa’ami religious practices ~ as they are known.


35 posted on 09/17/2012 7:21:07 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

If what you said in both posts had its basis in fact, and I suspect they do, that’s a fascinating hobby you have there.


36 posted on 09/17/2012 7:22:50 AM PDT by Lazamataz (RAGE MONKEY RULEZ!!!)
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To: Cronos

As well as the PAAS HAAS


37 posted on 09/17/2012 7:23:54 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Cronos
I celebrate Sam Edmund Botswain's birthday every year.

He is the patron saint of tiny little nuclear explosions covered with confetti and extra-hot habenero sauce, held aloft in a pinata made out of plastic explosives and JuJuBees, and the pinata is being sung to by hypnotized laser-eyed Rottweilers that bark, and when they bark, M&M's fly out.

Happy Sam Edmund Botswain's Day!!!!!

38 posted on 09/17/2012 7:26:22 AM PDT by Lazamataz (RAGE MONKEY RULEZ!!!)
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To: Cronos
The days get shorter and shorter up to the 21st of December ~ then they get longer and longer ~ but in ancient times you couldn't always be sure, but by the 25th of December you'd know FUR SHUR.

It was a quite obvious time for a celebration ~ particularly for that longer days part!

39 posted on 09/17/2012 7:26:26 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: youngidiot
Currently one of the oldest copies of the Koran ever found (didn't even have "dots" in it) is being deconstructed. Much of it is in what is clearly Aramaic and is mostly an instruction manual for Christian missionaries on how to convert the Arabs in Mecca to Christianity.

Then there are parts of an anomalous Torah ~ where facts about the past are just flat out different than the standard Torah in use in modern times (last couple of thousand years anyway).

Parts of the Koran are clearly just history ~ of somebody ~ presumably a fellow named Mohammad who may or may not have been a religious reformer.

More recently the Saudi Arabians conducted an enormous archaeological study of the Kaabah ~ the big factoids are it's pretty old ~ predates Islam, and was for the most part a Hindu Temple dedicated to the worship of a sort of snake god ~ who was NOT Krishna ~ yes, there are other snake gods. Shatan worship uses a snake; Satan is depicted as a snake; Moses used a snake; American snakehandlers are pretty much like Methodists theologically speaking, but they use snakes in worship services. That pretty much covers the waterfront.

National Geo covered the archaeological digs.

No, the snake god is not the Moon god.

On the other hand the minaret predates Islam and is the male member of the Earth god. Yup, Arabs had a masculine Earth and a feminine sky. Most others do it the other way around with a feminine Earth and a masculine sky. That, BTW, is one of the more ancient observations ever made about Arabian beliefs.

Regarding calendars, Islam makes use of the lunar calendar ~ so did the ancient Chinese ~ and then there are siderally adjusted lunar calendars ~ none of that turns you into a moslem ~ just screws up Easter and Passover.

40 posted on 09/17/2012 7:37:35 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: wesagain
Where does allah come from?

Here's my guess...


41 posted on 09/17/2012 7:48:53 AM PDT by Fresh Wind ('People have got to know whether or not their president is a crook.' Richard M. Nixon)
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To: Bryanw92
And I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit, and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon the old serpent, which is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. And he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should no more seduce the nations, till the thousand years be finished. And after that, he must be loosed a little time.

Revelation 20: 1-4

42 posted on 09/17/2012 7:50:18 AM PDT by Oratam
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To: Lazamataz
And people still wonder where Santa Claus came from ~ and I don't mean the dude from Armenia or Greece ~ the original model with the red suit and fur trim, with a big bag ~ he even has a prototypical Sa'ami hat! He drives a sleigh pulled by flying reindeer (and you eat enough amanita muscaria like they do and you'll think you are flying).

Did you know those animals can do bursts of 75MPH and can run flat out for long distances at 65MPH.

Flying!

BTW, Laz, my interest in the Sa'ami started with a need to research a peculiar heart malady found in many of my relatives ~ I found it in a single tribe of Sa'ami ~ not all of them, just one (also associated with a type of porphyria) ~ the last white folks on Earth to be known up to modern times for making a living exclusively on reindeer.

The relatives get a relatively benign bit of surgery and it fixes the problem. There are several other marker genes but we don't need to go into them.

So, the way you get genes is from your ancestors, hence my hobby ~ and it's also proven invaluable in figuring out what is making the relatives sick and what the kids have to watch out for.

The Swedish medical establishment loves to study these guys ~ they are definitely adapted to the Arctic and have a pre-modern genome!

I think Renee Zelweiger, Kirsten Dunst and Pam Anderson are part of the same Skolt Sa'ami nation, but might be from the closely related Inari. The dude the future queen of Sweden married (her personal trainer) is also part of that crowd, as is Elin Nordgren (the now very rich former Mrs. Tiger Woods.

Just like to note that with the Skolt and Inari you really could do worse than marrying your cousins ~ much worse really ~

43 posted on 09/17/2012 7:53:28 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
My hobby is not getting beheaded by Muslims.

So far, so good.

44 posted on 09/17/2012 7:59:44 AM PDT by Lazamataz (RAGE MONKEY RULEZ!!!)
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To: Lazamataz

There are NO Moslems in the Arctic. That’s because every 18 years they’d starve to death during Ramadan in the Summer!


45 posted on 09/17/2012 8:02:58 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Tzfat
In Israel it is called the “red/green alliance” - marxists and islamists.

marxists and islamists united to cut off Adam Smith's invisible hand.

46 posted on 09/17/2012 8:08:28 AM PDT by spokeshave (The only people better off today than 4 years ago are the Prisoners at Guantanamo.)
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To: Cronos
Sunday is the sun's day.
Monday is the moon's day.
Tuesday is some Norse god's day.
Wednesday is Wodin's day.
Thursday is Thor's day, Thor for godsakes!
Friday is Frigg's day for frig's sake.
Saturday is Saturn's day. Saturn!

Oh my God! I'm afraid to open my appointment book!

47 posted on 09/17/2012 8:11:51 AM PDT by Oratam
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To: Oratam
Go forth and pillage a village !
Celebrate your Norse and Anglo-Saxon cultural roots!
48 posted on 09/17/2012 8:13:57 AM PDT by Reily (l)
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To: Reily

Arrrrhhhh!!!!


49 posted on 09/17/2012 8:20:23 AM PDT by Oratam
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To: wesagain; All

This has turned into a very interesting thread. I’m glad I didn’t miss it.


50 posted on 09/17/2012 9:01:33 AM PDT by Albertafriend
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