Posted on 09/09/2012 3:08:47 PM PDT by CHRISTIAN DIARIST
So, what bothers me is there are a group of people who believed in Jesus. But the Bibles tells us....Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shall be saved. Then Jesus reveals these people for what they are...the children of the devil. He is not saying He is the devil, but that they misrepresented themselves as those who believed on Him. So....there is something specific which they did not believe which denied them the status of children of God. I think we cannot give God a headfake and hope we get it right. We must know Him. Like Paul said, "Oh that I may know Him and the power of His ressurection." So, we should "Study and show ourselves approved of God, a workman that need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of Truth."
"elpis" -- "favorable and CONFIDENT EXPECTATION" "elpis" describes the happy anticipation of good." ~Vines
Hope is a CONFIDENT EXPECTATION in the steadfast promise of God. God cannot fail! God is holding on to me; I am not holding on to Him; else I would surely fail. I could not save myself, I cannot keep myself.
Acts 26:20 - I preached first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that all must repent of their sins and turn to God—and prove they have changed by the good things they do.
1 Peter 2:1 - So get rid of all evil behavior. Be done with all deceit, hypocrisy, jealousy, and all unkind speech.
1 Peter 4:3 - You have had enough in the past of the evil things that godless people enjoy—their immorality and lust, their feasting and drunkenness and wild parties, and their terrible worship of idols.
Hebrews 6:1 - So let us stop going over the basic teachings about Christ again and again. Let us go on instead and become mature in our understanding. Surely we don’t need to start again with the fundamental importance of repenting from evil deeds and placing our faith in God.
2 Thessalonians 3:6 - And now, dear brothers and sisters, we give you this command in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ: Stay away from all believers who live idle lives and don’t follow the tradition they received from us.
1 Peter 1:14-15 - So you must live as God’s obedient children. Don’t slip back into your old ways of living to satisfy your own desires. You didn’t know any better then. But now you must be holy in everything you do, just as God who chose you is holy.
Titus 3:8 - [This is] a faithful saying, and these things I will that you affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
No, otherwise someone could say “I am saved” and then go off and commit all kinds of sin.
Hebrews 10:26 comes to mind.
“Foul. “What the Bible says” is the point at issue. You don’t get to beg the question. :-)”
I’m not trying to play a game, or score philosophical points.
I was trying to explain what the doctrine “once saved, always saved,” means to those who believe it.
I don’t think you need to believe it to be saved. If you don’t go with it, that is ok with me.
I think it is mostly a comfort for those who fear damnation. Interestingly, the fact that you fear damnation is an evidence that you are probably saved!
2 Peter would seem to indicate that one can fall away. It warns often to be careful not to fall away, for how can one return as that would mean the death of Christ all over again. I’ve known pastors who have changed to the Muslim faith. If 2 Peter is correct, there is no coming back to the Christian faith, once it has been tasted and turned from. Comments from others? Read 2 Peter.
I believe you are right. (Context is everything.)
My study bible confirms it.
Footnotes on Heb 6:4-6; This passage does not teach that one can lose his salvation through disbelief or apostasy. These verses refer to a hypotherical situation whereby the author stresses what would happen to a saved person if he ‘could’ fall away. The author does not believe one can lose his salvation, or that his readers had (v-9); but he so speaks to demonstrate the folly some might have in imaganing that they can turn back to Judaism without loss.
[Greek grammar paragraph on 4th and 5th participles.]
The important point about Hebrews 6 is that it agrees with the general tenor of Scripture concerning the security of the born-again believer. One basis for the securityof the believer involves the promises recorded in God’s Word (vv 18-20; 7:24, 25; 8:12; 10:10-14; John 10:28-30; Rom 8:28-39; Eph1:13, 14; 4:30; Phil 1:6; John 5:13) Yet, an even stronger basis for security is found within the nature of the new life God gives. Though conversion involves man’s will, it is God’s will that produces regeneration (John 1:13) Thus, salvation is infinatly more than a decision that one can make and then break. It is the work of God that transforms one from darkness to light (1 Cor 4:4; Col 1:13), from death to life (John 5:24), from a child of the Devil to a son of God (Rom 8:14-17). It is a completed, regenerating work (10:14; Eph 2:8 — “You are saved,” or “You have been saved and stand saved” — Greek perfect tense).
“We are free agents.”
That statement is what pretty much separates ‘Calvinists’ from ‘Arminians.’ Both are Christians, but we do disagree as to the part election plays in salvation.
Both would say that mankind is responsible before God for his sins, and must respond in faith to the offer of the gospel to be saved.
But Calvinists would say that, unless God makes the first action and changes our hearts, we can’t make that move.
I agree, the mind of Christ should indeed be the ruling agent in any believer. The argument about the term ‘saved’, has both immediate and eternal references. I like to think of it as in the same terms of marriage.
When the bride and groom are joined in marriage....they are indeed one and it God’s desire that they should always remain so. In the eternal framework we are in the process of becoming the bride of Christ.
The marriage supper of the Lamb is, as are the ‘many houses’ which the Lord spoke of, currently being prepared.
So yes, a believer can be recognized as belonging to the Lord as his bride in waiting (saved or set apart). Such people consider their previous lives forfeit and begin a life of grace, subject to the mind of Christ, by the power of his Holy Spirit. Thus begins the process of becoming married.
Some could claim, as in tradition, to be married. Yet the marriage would not be considered complete until it was, by the intimate union of the bride and groom, consummated.
We should therefore be always aware that the bridegroom comes quickly at an exact time only known by the Father.
So, it would be in our best interest to heed the bridegroom’s urging and, with as much vigilance as can, ‘be ready’.
Those whom the Lord finds ready and waiting, who hear His voice and receive His invitation, they shall be His for eternity.
“If Judas was damned then what did that mean?”
Indeed. It is a deep question.
Esau’s fate: “For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.” Hebrews 12:17
He became the father of the Edomites, the enemies of Israel.
What does it mean?
John 10:27-30
“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
I and my Father are one.”
It says there that his sheep will never perish, and can’t be plucked out of Jesus’ hand. This is true. Yet Esau and Judas and others fell; this is also true. How to reconcile them both?
God is sovereign, yet man is responsible. So apparently Esau, for all his outward trappings of sonship and faith, was not ever truly part of things.
Jesus tells us to beware of wolves in sheep’s clothing. Among other things, this tells us that there are people who appear to be Christians who are not, and we are to be careful and not get led astray by them.
Also he says Satan can disguise himself as an angel of light. We need to be on our guards.
Yet we can take comfort in the knowledge that he will keep us, even like Job, we may suffer, but we will not lose our salvation, if we truly trust in Him.
Agreed.
If God saved you (His work), then you cannot unsave yourself (your work).
From A.M. Hills:
“. . . Faith, as a power to believe, is indeed the gift of God; but faith as an exercise is the free, avoidable, yet really performed act of the intellect, heart and will, by which the man surrenders himself to Christ and all holiness for time and eternity. In consequence of this act, and not for its meritorious value, or in any way compensating for earning salvation, it is accepted for righteousness, and the man himself accepted, pardoned and saved. And as this faith is free and rejectable in its beginning so through life it continues. The Christian is as obliged, through the grace of God assisting, to freely retain it, as at first to freely exercise it. It is of the very essence of his probationary freedom, that he is able to renounce his faith and apostatize, as he was able to refuse to believe at first.”
Is it possible that another person's study bible, edited by a different group of theologians and interpreters, would confirm the opposing argument? And, if so, are you not just choosing one group of experts over another group of experts, all the while acknowledging that you do not have the expertise to judge which set of experts is most reliable?
"Those who believe the power of God is unable to keep them saved, do not understand the true nature of salvation. "
That's not the point at all. I am convinced God could have kept Eve from sinning and that there would have never been a need for Christ to come for our Salvation. Did God do that? No, so supposing that because God is capable of a thing He will do that very thing is not relevant in the least. God gives us the free will to accept Salvation then to continue to believe and live as if we are believers. Those who don't are either once again in a fallen state or they're not, that's the issue.
Of course God has the power to save us and to keep us from falling but you can find plenty of folks in prison for murder who will tell you they were "born again" as a child and now don't believe in Christ because He let them fall. So, did God keep them from falling or did God allow them to be deceived into thinking they were saved when they were not? We have a role to play as well and the limits of our role is what is at issue when you talk about OSAS, not the limits of what God can do.
It possible but I would want to see it and make up (work out) my own mind (salvation). All these things are just debatable matters anyhow.
God gets the final say and His is the only one that matters.
Acknowledging to myself that I do not have the expertise is what led me to this book. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.
Christ founded 1 form of Christianity and it did just fine for over 1,600 years....then along came the protestants and decided to form 20,000 or so "denominations"...just what He needed...millions have been lost due to Luther, Zwingley, Calvin, Wesley, Henry VIII....you just can't make up the rules as you go along,,,,would be nice if you could, but you can't!!
I guess I could count the times I never spat on a car with an BO sticker on it.
You can put up an example of a person that looks saved, who leaves the faith, and say, "There, see, that person lost their salvation, so it proves that there isn't any such thing as eternal security." What it actually proves is that though that person seemed saved, Jesus didn't know them. To know someone you must have a close relationship with them, not just a well worked out religious system, that mimics true Christianity.
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Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
13:26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all [ye] workers of iniquity. when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you [yourselves] thrust out.
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Mathew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
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1John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. (I Cor. 6:9-11)
We are NOT going to heaven because we make ourselves righteous. We are NOT going to heaven because we sanctify ourselves. We are NOT going to heaven because we deserve it, earn it, merit it or work for it. It is ONLY because of what Christ did FOR us - HE justifies, HE sanctifies, HE makes righteous. We are saved by GRACE and grace means undeserved, unmerited, not of debt owed for works done but by FAITH in Christ. God knows His own, HE sees the heart.
No, that is not what the passage is talking about. Read the way you are saying it DOES put a nail in the coffin of there EVER being the possibility to repent, confess and return to the faith. If you notice, the verse you gave says it is "IMPOSSIBLE... TO RENEW THEM AGAIN to repentance". So, by this way of looking at it, you get ONE chance to be saved and if you screw it up, you can NEVER come back. Are you sure this is what you want to say to people, people who have a sin nature?
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