[Colofornian]

#1 The author is Mormon; published by BYU.

#2 Lds "apostle" Orson Pratt is Mitt Romney's great-great grandfather [Relationships table in Wikipedia Pratt family entry]

#3 From the article: Re this Jesus reference as "Elder Brother," ...nowhere do the scriptures use this expression in reference to Jesus.

(IOW, even the "scriptures" the Mormons added to the Bible -- the Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price, and Doctrine & Covenants -- NONE of these were the source of this reference!)

#4 From the article: Beginning in 1844 we find the first instances in which the Church leaders use the phrase elder brother...to refer to Christ. These six recordings were all recorded contemporaneously. June 22, 1844, Orson Pratt...The concept that Christ is the elder brother...does not appear to have been actually articulated and recorded until 1871 by Orson Pratt:

The article quotes a second-hand source for Pratt's June 22, 1844 usage, as well as his first written recorded usage in 1871 -- the '71 excerpt: Now, who is Jesus? He is only our brother, but happens to be the firstborn...how is he the firstborn? Because he is the eldest--the first one born of the whole family of spirits and therefore is our elder brother.

From the article: ...It is apparently Orson Pratt, then, who should be credited with the first attempt to...use the title elder brother as applied to Jesus. It was Orson Pratt who first recorded the concept that Jesus is "our Brother" shortly before the death of Joseph Smith, and Orson Pratt who first articulated that Jesus is all humankind's elder brother in the spirit...

[Colofornian]

#5 While the Bible...
(a)...presents Jesus as fully man -- in fact, a suffering Servant (Isaiah 53);
(b)...presents some of mankind as adopted children of God -- whereas legalists like the Pharisees were labeled by Jesus as children of the devil (John 8)...
...(c)...Mormonism disregards Jesus' teaching in John 8 and attempts to present ALL as automatic children of God...and does this on the basis of its unique teaching that ALL were born as spirits to a God-Mom and God-Dad on a planet near the star "Kolob." Hence, Jesus is presented as the "firstborn" of these spirits "born." Hence, both Lds and Jehovah's Witnesses reduce Jesus to more of a "created" status. What Orson Pratt -- and the Mormon general authorities -- failed to realize is that when the apostle Paul used "firstborn" in Colossians 1:15, he used a Greek word (arche) as a metaphor for rank/sovereignty. Paul echoed one of David's Psalms: "I will also make him My firstborn, greatest of the kings of the earth" (Ps. 89:27). Elsewhere, Israel is labeled God's 'firstborn' (Ex. 4:22)...clearly Israel wasn't first in a series, as Mormons sadly interpreted "firstborn."

#6 The author of this BYU-published study seemed to realize the way non-Mormons would comprehend this unique Lds teaching, saying: The article concedes To those not familiar with the plan of salvation, hearing Jesus Christ called an elder brother might be misunderstood as a diminution of Christ's high status...

But let's face it, if the Mormon pre-existent narrative was historically true --
--if you, I, Lucifer, and Jesus were all siblings to each other, "born" to a Mom-God and a Dad-God near Kolob...
...and Jesus was the first of the "litter" and Lucifer the second of the "litter"...
...then before the Mormon story of how both Jesus and Lucifer presented their "plans of salvation" to Dad-God, there wasn't any significant difference substance-wise between the Son of God, Lucifer, or you and me! The lone distinction was supposedly mere spiritual birth order--The Mormon Jesus supposedly having been birth first in some "pre-existent world!"

Of course, what this does then is to greatly reduce the unique status of the Son of God from eternity past, something Mormonistic theology loves to do! IOW, Jesus wasn't so unique from eternity history past: Lucifer was "spirit-born" just like Jesus! And so were the rest of us, says Mitt Romney's ancestor and says Mormonism!

[NOTE: Mormonism further reduces the uniqueness of Jesus Christ's deity by claiming that ALL of us are "gods-in-embryo" -- and each have the potential to become full-grown-up gods. (You only have to be baptized Mormon; become a member in good standing with a temple recommend; obey all their laws and covenants; etc.)]

[dalebert]

Let's get off of Mitts religion..this week of Obama antics has convinced me we need to replace him at all costs.At least Mitt has a religion..Obama’s only religion is himself.

[Colofornian]

#7 Of course, this is then where Mike Huckabee was roundly criticized in December of 2007 for merely asking if the Mormons taught Satan was Jesus' brother.

Yes, the Mormons teach that. Yes, the Mormons had their feathers ruffled by that exposition! They acted as if it wasn't taught by its leaders. (Goes to show you that either some were ignorant of their own teachings; or, they had a temporary problem of placing public relations over image)

Per the official Lds magazine Ensign: On first hearing, the doctrine that Lucifer and our Lord, Jesus Christ, are brothers may seem surprising to some—especially to those unacquainted with latter-day revelations. But both the scriptures and the prophets affirm that Jesus Christ and Lucifer are indeed offspring of our Heavenly Father and, therefore, spirit brothers…But as the Firstborn of the Father, Jesus was Lucifer’s older brother.
Secondary source: Is Jesus Christ the Spirit Brother of Satan?

Then...go back to late January 2010. Rexburg Idaho. Home of BYU-Idaho. An Lds apostle, M. Russell Ballard, gives an unscripted fireside "convo" with Mormon students. See: Ballard speaks on Mormons in the media from the Rexburg Standard Journal, which covers the talk.

Ballard let the "cat out of the bag" there as well: From the Rexburg article: "You remember Mr. (Mike) Huckabee (who was also vying to be the Republican candidate for president), who among other things said that Mormons believe that Jesus and the devil were brothers?" Ballard asked students. "Remember that? It went all over the media. "Well they are!" Ballard exclaimed to a laughing student body.

Ah, yes. When Mormons accused Huckabee of lying about this -- or worse. They were all offended. Get them behind closed doors, and they laugh about the reality of having Mormon worldviews pegged in the public square.

So, here, we have an Lds general authority conceding that -- to quote him "Well they are!" in reference to the issue of whether they cite "Jesus and the devil are brothers."

Now in case someone views that this information needs to be suppressed...not let it become aired out...or they think that we are overriding realities in our assessments of Mormonism, Elder Ballard concedes at this fireside chatm adding: "But they (the media and nonmembers) don't understand that, because they don't have the (LDS gospel) restoration. They don't understand the spiritual relationship that ... we are all sons and daughters of God, and that Lucifer was one of those and (that) he chose to use his agency in an unrighteous way."

Let's read what some other Mormons have had to say on this subject:

* An LDS "Seventy" named Milton R. Hunter wrote: "The appointment of Jesus to be Saviour of the world was contested by one of the other sons of God. He was called Lucifer, Son of the Morning ....this spirit brother of Jesus desperately tried to become the Saviour of Mankind." MILTON R. HUNTER (First Council of 70) The Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15, 1958

* Brigham Young said: “Who will redeem the earth, who will go forth and make the sacrifice for the earth and all things it contains?” The Eldest Son said: “Here am I”; and then he added, “Send me.” But the second one, which was “Lucifer, Son of the Morning,” said, “Lord, here am I, send me, I will redeem every son and daughter of Adam and Eve that lives on the earth, or that ever goes on the earth.” (Journal of Discourses, pp. 53-54)

* In 1844, LDS author and hymn-writer W.W. Phelps wrote: "And again, we exclaim, O Mormonism! No wonder that Lucifer, son of the morning, the next heir to Jesus Christ, our eldest brother, should fight so hard against his brethren; he lost the glory, the honor, power, and dominion of a God and the knowledge, spirit, authority and keys of the priesthood of the son of God!"

* In 1949 this LDS Conference Report features LDS apostle Joseph F. Merrill, who says that Lucifer "is a spirit brother of ours and of our Lord Jesus Christ..." Here's the exact quote:

"Now there is another personality of which I desire to speak, ... that person is Satan, the Devil. But according to our understanding and teaching, Satan is a person with a spirit body, in form like that of all other men. He is a spirit brother of ours and of our Lord Jesus Christ, who is our Elder Brother in the spirit world. The earth was in course of development for the abode of man in mortality. A Redeemer was to be sent down and make it possible for the Father's children to return to him." (LDS Conference Report, April 1949, p. 27)

* LDS Apostle John A. Widtsoe taught that Jesus is not only the brother of Jesus, but his "elder brother." Exact quote:

"The story of Lucifer is the most terrible example of such apostasy. ... He pitted his own plan and will against the purposes of God. He strove to gain the birthright of his Elder Brother, Jesus the Christ." (Evidences and Reconciliations, p. 209)

The bottom-line of all of this, is that, per Mormonism, not only is the Mormon "Jesus" our "elder brother," but so is the Mormon Satan. Ask your fellow Lds neighbors and co-workers: Is Satan your elder brother. I've asked Lds missionaries; and they've had to concede they believe that!

[Colofornian]

From the study: Section 93, an 1833 revelation to Joseph Smith, allows implicitly the idea of brotherhood with Jesus: since human spirits are eternal, these spirits were with God in the beginning just as Jesus was

Except that this actually presents more problems for the Mormon narrative -- not less! How so?

Well, I recall an article from the Lds church owned Deseret News, where the specially appointed columnist dealing with issues within the Media commented: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints likewise takes no definitive view of when the embryo or fetus acquires a soul... [Source: LDS beliefs in Focus

I said then: Let me get this straight: Lds think man has been...
(1) as eternal as its god – that “intelligences” self-exist from eternity past (LDS Doctrine & Covenants 93:29,33).
(2) Then somehow these intelligences, who were beginningless, had “beginnings” as spirit babies of a god & goddess in some “pre-existence.”
(3) Then the spirit baby fully matured in the “pre-existence.”
(4) Then it came to pass that this spirit baby passed down an earthly birth canal. This time to a second set of parents (humans on earth).
(5) Oh. But the LDS general authorities, according to their own complex belief system, conclude that it ”takes no definitive view of when...” this “intelligence-baby spirit-fully matured spirit-now-embryo" has ”acquired a soul.”
Oh. Just Oh.
(If these entities "birthed" in heaven have no soul, what are they?)

I would add...if these "human spirits were eternal" -- and already existed BEFORE being "spirit born" to a Mom-God near Kolob, why did they need yet another beginning point? (They contradict)

Now, how do Mormons define "spirit?" If you look under the "Spirit" entry in LDS church-published Bible Dictionary, 1979 (p. 776) -- in back of Holy Bible, you'll find this entry:

"That is, ALL forms of living things--man, beast and vegetation--existed as individual spirits, before any form of life existed upon the earth. The spirit is in the likeness of the physical body, as demonstrated in Gen. 2:5; 1 Ne. 11:11; Ether 3:15-16; D&C 77:2; 129; Moses 3:4-7. Furthermore, all spirit is matter,but is more refined and pure than mortal element (D&C 131:7)."

So. If you take the infinite regression teaching of the Mormon church -- infinitely regressing, we ALL have supposedly "existed" in some form -- [again, see @ Doctrine & Covenant 93:29,33 above...this teaches WE are as eternal (past) as God/Jesus, etc. -- & that spirits & intelligences & elements ALWAYS existed!!!
...and couple it with this above eternal regression teaching...that vegetation & beasts were co-existent alongside us as fellow "spirits" once upon a time...and that we all have ALWAYS existed...

Sometimes esoteric macabre teachings that you think are so FAR out there...are actually mainstream Mormonism!

For more on D&C 93:29,33 and the so-called "Mormon pre-existence" and "Kolob," you can see recent threads:
* PRE-EXISTENCE? Reason 22 [Another planetary pre-existence exist as Lds believe? Ex-Lds says 'no']
* Mormon Science and Space Doctrines [Kolobian cosmology]
* “Save Kolob”: Church News Says Book of Abraham “Not Central to the Restored Gospel”

[T. P. Pole]

The Friendly Beasts

Old English Christmas Carol

Jesus our brother, kind and good
Was humbly born in a stable rude
And the friendly beasts around Him stood
Jesus our brother, kind and good.

"I," said the donkey, shaggy and brown,
"I carried His mother up hill and down;
I carried her safely to Bethlehem town."
"I," said the donkey, shaggy and brown.

"I," said the cow, all white and red
"I gave Him my manger for a bed;
I gave Him my hay to pillow His head."
"I," said the cow, all white and red.

"I," said the sheep with curly horn,
"I gave Him my wool for His blanket warm;
He wore my coat on Christmas morn."
"I," said the sheep with curly horn.

"I," said the dove from the rafters high,
"Cooed Him to sleep that He should not cry;
We cooed Him to sleep, my mate and I."
"I," said the dove from the rafters high.

"I," said the camel, yellow and black,
"Over the desert, upon my back,
I brought Him a gift in the Wise Men's pack."
"I," said the camel, yellow and black.

Thus every beast by some good spell
In the stable dark was glad to tell
Of the gift he gave Emmanuel,
The gift he gave Emmanuel.

[Former Fetus]

That’s why I pray every day for Romney’s salvation! But he’s still a million times more qualified to lead this country than BHO is. Let’s not mix up what is Caesar’s and what is God’s!

[Campion]

nowhere do the scriptures use this expression in reference to Jesus.

Wrong, Colo. Sorry, this is one area where the Mormons got it at least partly right.

Romans 8:29 says that Jesus is "firstborn among many brethren". The "many brethren" is us, the Church, therefore Jesus is indeed precisely our elder brother. We are Sons of God as well, by adoption through grace, while he is *the* Son of God by nature. (cf 1 Jn 3) Obviously if he is the "firstborn," and we are the "many brethren," then he is our eldest brother.

That's orthodox (and Orthodox) Christianity.

[GLDNGUN]

And if your ancestor was a slave owner...does that make you a slave owner? I’m missing the point of tying this belief to an ancestor of Mitt Romney.

[fishtank]

The lds-org denies that Jesus is the Creator,

that everything was created THROUGH Him, BY Him and FOR Him.

They deny Jesus created the angels and the universe out of nothing.

[fishtank]

The lds-org denies that Jesus is the Creator, that everything was created BY Him.

The lds-org is a thief of the Name and the Truth of Jesus Christ.

[fishtank]

Thank you for your regular posts.

Acts 24:16

[MEGoody]

Well, I guess since Jesus is the Son of God per the scriptures, and we become children of God when we are saved, it isn’t out of line to refer to Jesus as our brother. Just as it is not out of line to say Mary is the mother of Jesus. But we all know He is much, MUCH more than our brother or son of Mary.

[MEGoody]

Well, I guess since Jesus is the Son of God per the scriptures, and we become children of God when we are saved, it isn’t out of line to refer to Jesus as our brother. Just as it is not out of line to say Mary is the mother of Jesus. But we all know He is much, MUCH more than our brother or son of Mary.

[Tennessee Nana]

It rained here all morning...

Lightning and thunder...

About the only place theres no draught...

So I fired up the sewing machine out in the sunroom...

When I sew I lose track of time...

I sew till I’m finished...

Neither Obama nor Willard know how to make anything themselves...

I just came into my office to check the Internet and see if the Romneybots had committed group Hari Kari as yet...

[Sloth]

It was Orson Pratt who first recorded the concept that Jesus is "our Brother" shortly before the death of Joseph Smith

I reject Mormon doctrine, but the above claim is just absurd. See Romans 8:29, Hebrews 2:11-12, 17.

[viaveritasvita]

bookmark

[SZonian]

http://bible-truth.org/jesusbro.htm