Posted on 06/20/2012 7:27:46 AM PDT by cleghornboy
People of other faiths keep making fun of us Catholics because we insist on using phrases like “virginally integral”.
This Church needs to speak in English. The article actually makes quite a few good points, but few are going to read past “virginally integral”.
Most, including me, non-Catholics have a real problem with the deification of Mary. I don't see the big deal if she was a normal person that God used to be the Mother of Jesus. She had relations with her husband afterwards. She had children afterwards. That would be normal. What the Catholics teach is an abnormal relationship when there is no cause to suspect this..
**She had relations with her husband afterwards. She had children afterwards. That would be normal. **
Where did you get ahold of this false teaching?
Have you ever heard of the Ark of the Old Covenant and how anyone died who touched it?
The same is true, using typology, of the Ark of the New Covenant, the Blessed Virgin Mary. St. Joseph understood this and respected Mary. It was a far from “normal” as you say, situation.
How do you answeer this quote from the Nicene Creed speaking of Jesus Christ?
“and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and became man.”
This piece was not directed to “people of other faiths.” It was directed to Catholics. Hence the title: “As Catholics...”
The Bible. The command to go out and populate the earth.
Have you ever heard of the Ark of the Old Covenant and how anyone died who touched it?
Yes. And that fact was well publicized. Jesus had half-brothers from his biological mother and Joseph. There is nothing to suggest she was to never have relations with her husband.
I don't have a problem with Joseph not having relations with Mary after Jesus was born. I can understand that.
But saying Mary was Immaculate because Jesus couldn't be surrounded by sin is a very dangerous path. It suggests that Jesus was not physically present on earth, since He could not be around sin (and the earth is corrupted by it).
Essays for Lent: Mary Ever-Virgin
Why is the perpetual virginity of Mary so important to Catholics? [Ecumenical Vanity]
Is the Perpetual Virginity of Mary a Biblical View?
Aeiparthenos (An Anglo-Catholic Priest on Mary's Perpetual Virginity)
The Heõs Hou polemic is over: Radio Debate Matatics VS White & Svendsen on Perpetual Virginity Mary
The Early Church Fathers on Mary’s Perpetual Virginity - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Heõs Hou polemic is over: Radio Debate Matatics VS White & Svendsen on Perpetual Virginity Mary
Luther, Calvin, and Other Early Protestants on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary
Luther, Calvin, and Other Early Protestants on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary
Please turn to Luke 1:26 in your Bible and read it slowly and carefully..
Good grief, later Mary walked to see her cousin, Elizabeth. Of course she had a physical, and very holy, body and soul.
You wrote:
“The Bible. The command to go out and populate the earth.”
So Jesus violated that command by not marrying and having children, right? And St. Paul too, right?
“There is nothing to suggest she was to never have relations with her husband.”
Actually there is: her question to Gabriel and his response. Ever wonder why she wasn’t punished as Zachariah was just a handful of verses earlier? After all they asked similar sounding questions. What was the REAL difference in their questions?
Jesus had a mission from God that forbade His getting married. Mary specifically, with approval, got married. Paul was a widower who never remarried.
You wrote:
“Jesus had a mission from God that forbade His getting married.”
Gee, really? Show me where you find that in scripture.
“Mary specifically, with approval, got married.”
Getting married doesn’t mean she ever had sex.
“Paul was a widower who never remarried.”
So, he wasn’t fruitful and never multiplied. He violated God’s commandment - according to your own logic.
Jesus as the Lamb of God, sacrificed for the sin of the world, had to be “without blemish.” This means his human nature had to free from the damage of original sin, because all physical imperfections are reflections of the first Sin of Man.
Mary as the New Eve had to be free from original sin, in order to make the choice for God instead of against Him. This dogma is so deep and eternally glorious, and yet so immediately relevant.
When I pray the Rosary, I always include the Assumption and Coronation of Mary, because this is the end of human life for which we all hope. What are we hoping for, if not to be body and soul with Christ, receiving the crown of glory He prepared from the ages for His faithful?
however, while she was an ordinary mortal, she was not a 'normal person' -- not because of any innate ability or power, but by the grace of God, He created a perfect vessel for Him to reside in for 9 months
and, no, you have zero proof that she had relations with her husbands afterwards and you have zero proof that the 'brothers and sisters' of Christ were not either cousins or children from Joseph's earlier marriage.
Ancient tradition holds that Joseph was an elderly widower. Also note that the brothers of Jesus disown Him and that Jesus gives the care of His mother to a non-family member -- that latter is unthinkable in a traditional society and would not have been done by Jesus who kept the law.
Flat out impossible as Jesus gave the care of His mother to a non-family member. If he had other brothers and sisters born of Mary, they would be taking care of her after His death, not an outsider. No Jew keeping the law to honor father and mother would do that.
People have to get over the anti-Mary nonsense. Do not
take it personal, some men long ago rejected Mary to reject
Catholicism. You didn’t~! Our Lord wants everyone to
honor and love Mary. You can speak to her in prayer, she
will help you. Remember the wedding at Cana. It’s a lesson.
I worry, if you reject the Marian Dogmas now, what of the
final Marian Dogma. The 5th Marian Dogma? Instead believe
all of the Dogmas and you won’t be going down the wrong
road.
You all may know of Taylor Marshal. He gave this verse from
Scripture to show, yes Mary was Immaculately Conceived.
~ ~ ~
Sharing #2.
3 Scriptural arguments for the Immaculate Conception of Mary.
See the link for the full article...
http://cantuar.blogspot.com/2009/12/immaculate-conception-of-mary-three.html
Argument #2
Mary as New Eve Having Enmity with Satan
Gen 3:15
“I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel..”
In this verse God addresses Satan. The Seed here is Christ. The Woman is His Mother, that is, Mary. Thus Satan has perfect enmity with Christ and with His Mother. The Catholic Church has interpreted this as indicating the sinlessness of Christ and Mary. [u]If either actually committed sin, then they would not be at enmity with Satan but actually a cooperator with Satan at times
John was His half brother.
err.. no, John the disciple at the foot of the cross was not Jesus' brother --> do read the bible, your statement makes no sense in light of John 19:27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold, thy mother! And from that hour the disciple took her unto his own home. -- if John was already Mary's son, why the words?
err.. no, John the disciple at the foot of the cross was not Jesus' brother --> do read the bible, your statement makes no sense in light of John 19:27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold, thy mother! And from that hour the disciple took her unto his own home. -- if John was already Mary's son, why the words?
Mary had no other children, so Jesus had the responsibility, to take care of His Mother.
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